Talk:Holy avenger/Archive 1

DC
What is the DC for the Dispel Magic of the Holy Avenger? Does it dispel everything? Certain things? Is there a DC? What? -Dugaru327


 * There is no DC for the dispel, it literally wipes it all out based on a 25% chance IIRC. --Countess Terra 21:34, 13 January 2006 (PST)


 * Also, at least the Holy sword version of Holy avenger is dependant on the casterlevel for how well it dispels. As both confer the holy avenger property onto the weapon, I would assume that the item property is based on the innate casterlevel thus. GhostNWN 02:14, 14 January 2006 (PST)

Paladins and UMDers
How does the first note explain what I added to the note Terra? The first note says that Paladins and UMDers can get the full benefit. I stated that non paladins and those without UMD still get the dispel effect. GhostNWN 16:27, 13 January 2006 (PST)


 * Actually Ghost you said something different, you said Non-paladins and UMD-types get the dispel. Look at the history. ^_^ --Countess Terra 21:34, 13 January 2006 (PST)


 * That "Non" was meant to be inclusive of both lol. Adding a second "non" then I guess. GhostNWN 02:14, 14 January 2006 (PST)

Fear aura
I just tried to dispel a dragon's fear aura with holy avenger. Didn't work. Possibly it could be a level difference issue but maybe the description in the notes is wrong? GhostNWN 07:29, 14 January 2006 (PST)

Spell resistance
The +16SR suggests any existing SR is modified upward by 16. However, the SR notes indicate SR does not stack, but uses the highest available. Should references to +#SR be changed to "grants SR of #"? Blacknight 08:51, 17 July 2006 (PDT)


 * That terminology is directly from the game talk files; so, if it's a mistake, it's BioWare's error. My preference is to use the game's actual terminology, but adding a note explaining why it's confusing is a good idea. -- Alec Usticke 09:21, 17 July 2006 (PDT)

UMD ranks or skill?
For purposes of calculating UMD, it is base skill points only, or do bonii (Charisma bonus, item bonii, etc) count? I have a Bard char with 22 base UMD and +3 Cha bonus on a PW, but seem to be getting +2 enhancement, not +5, on my char sheet. Chizbo 20:48, 6 March 2007 (PST)


 * UMD is always total skill. If your character sheet shows UMD 25, then you should be getting the +5 enhancement (as well as the spell resistance and divine damage vs. evil). That's assuming your PW has not changed the property. The character sheet does lie sometimes. What have you observed in combat? --The Krit 09:58, 2 April 2007 (PDT)


 * Holy avenger is the only property on the item in question? UMD goes by total Item value after all. --DM Mask 17:45, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Item property combinations
Say I made a sword that is Attack Bonus AND Enhancement Bonus +7 each, OnHit: Vorpal(or something from the list), OnHit CastSpell: Evil Blight(or something from the list), AND a Holy Avenger. Would all the effects work? In the comments for Holy Sword it seems that only the highest bonus works and doesn't stack, so it would be +7\+7, but will the OnHit powers all work as well along with the dispel and divine damage? So when it hits it causes death by Vorpal/Evil Blight spell effect/divine damage/and dispel. Or is there conflict? And what about the 16 SR? TormentedOne 12:23, 2 July 2009 (UTC)


 * If a weapon has a +7 enhancement bonus, then you add nothing (except possibly item value) by adding a +7 attack bonus. It's been confirmed that an "on-hit cast spell" can fire at the same time as other on-hits, but that test did not include a holy avenger's dispelling ability specifically. The divine damage is not an on-hit, so there is no conflict with the on-hits there. And what do you mean by "what about the 16 SR"? What could that possibly conflict with? --The Krit 15:22, 16 July 2009 (UTC)


 * That answers some of my questions, thx. I would really like to know if the dispel effect will still work along with the (ie:) "OnHit: Vorpal, and OnHitCastSpell: Evil Blight". Has anyone ever tested this out that could comment on this? I guess this links with the question below this one. I'd really like to know the answer to this.
 * As for the 16SR, if I assign the weapon a 30SR will it add to the 30 or does it just do 30SR? ---TormentedOne 06:19, 25 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Spell resistance never stacks, so you should end up with 30SR. Someone might still want to verify that in-game though. --The Krit 16:08, 25 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I just made a post on Bioware Forums that maybe will find someone who has tested this stuff out. http://nwn.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=687187&forum=42 . Hopefully someone smarter than me will figure it out, I know there are alot of you Geniuses out there. :p Hell, compared to me almost everyone else is better at the game than I am. hehe. ---TormentedOne 06:40, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Is the Dispel Effect considered an OnHit spell casting, or due to its strange nature, is it consider an OnHit -Property- because the PW I play on doesn't want Holy Avenger since they're saying its an OnHit Spell, which is disallowed due to stacking issues with Flame Weapon, as reported by DM's. Could anyone verify if this is the case or otherwise. --70.105.170.101 21:32, 7 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Actually, on-hit spell casting is an on-hit property, specifically the "on-hit: cast spell" property. But whether or not the holy avenger's on-hit property conflicts with this would need to be tested by someone. --The Krit 20:07, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Holy avenger dispel stacks with on-hit cast spells, as well as with a host of other properties such as on hits. So I am leaning that the HA dispel is an "on hit" (like the on hit: dispel) and not an "on hit: cast spell" (like on hit: cast spell: dispel magic level 10) as I have never been able to get two on hit cast spells to stack. WhiZard 03:37, July 24, 2011 (UTC)

Dispell Effect
The dispell effect doesn't seem to work for me [UMD user]. All other effects i have...

Anyone knows why?Pimpernell 01:36, February 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * The dispels fire often without the normal dispel animation. Also the range of spells that can be dispelled is limited to those with low caster levels. Try deafening clang + holy avenger/holy sword and watch the log to see if you are dispelling your deafening clangs. WhiZard 03:42, July 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * yeah, after i wrote this i forgot about it and just only a few days ago after testing the Holy Avenger sword i noticed the dispel working. i had also forgotten about the fact that the dispel was less effective then before 1.69. probably because i never really liked playing Paladin :D but thx for info anyway. --Pimpernell 23:26, July 24, 2011 (UTC)

UMD and base item value
The article's UMD note (and perhaps some of the discussion here) seems to be specific to the particular sword found in SoU, which happens to be a longsword with a +2 enhancement bonus and the Holy Avenger property. This article isn't about a particular sword, but rather the property. Moreover, that SoU sword is an unfortunately confusing example because of the +2 enhancement bonus, which is nonfunctional except to make the item cost more. That is, the HA property, by itself, reverts to being just +2 weapon enhancement (perhaps with a dispel effect; I didn't check that) if the wielder is not a paladin or lacks sufficient ranks to beat the "Alignment emulation DC" in the UMD table. If a non-paladin character has a high enough UMD skill to emulate a changed alignment for the weapon (regardless of his actual alignment), the full HA property will work for him. In essence, look in the UMD table for the row corresponding to the total weapon value and determine the needed UMD by what's listed in the alignment column. A few examples: and so on. The point is, there doesn't seem to be any special connection between the HA property and UMD 25, except that is the UMD skill needed for non-paladins to use the particular sword in SoU. A different sword with the HA property would require a different UMD skill, so the first note in the article is misleading. I will try and re-word it, though keeping it simple enough may be rough. - MrZork 11:20, November 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * A longsword with HA and no other item properties (value between 1000 and 4800 gp) will exhibit the listed HA properties for a character with UMD &ge; 15.
 * A longsword with HA and a (superfluous) +1 enhancement (value between 4800 and and 20,000 gp) will exhibit the listed HA properties for a character with UMD &ge; 20.
 * The SoU longsword with HA and a (superfluous) +2 enhancement (value between 20,000 and 100,000 gp) will exhibit the listed HA properties for a character with UMD &ge; 25.
 * A longsword with HA and a +8 damage bonus (value between 100,000 and 300,000 gp) will exhibit the listed HA properties for a character with UMD &ge; 30.


 * Well, the particular sword in the SoU campaign and the standard weapon (added with HotU, based on its ResRef). The 25 number still seems useful to mention. Oh, and "nonfunctional" with regards to the +2 bonus is open to interpretation. While it does not affect combat, it does clue players into the fact that non-paladins do get a +2 bonus (particularly players who might think holy avenger is a paladin-only property). --The Krit 16:23, November 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * I wonder if a short note in the item's description might not be a better way to clue in the player, since in this case the nonfunctional (in terms of game mechanics) +2 enhancement actually obscures the fact that HA isn't a paladin-only property. Nice rewording, BTW, maintaining the distinction between the item and the property by using the item as an example. - MrZork 17:54, November 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * MrZork this article might not be about the actual holy [long] sword, The Krit is referring to it on the main page. it did take me a while to understand what he was saying though ;) because i read this article as just being about the item property, but then he says "The score required for the standard holy avenger item..." ??? what does that mean? that word has no link on it. might it be a good idea to have a link there to the actual holy avenger [long]sword? i tried searching for holy avenger sword/longsword but couldn't find it. so i had to open toolset and look for a holy avenger weapon myself to understand what he was saying [didn't know about the sword, i never use a longsword] so why not say "The score required for the holy avenger +2 longsword [HotU] is 25, while the score required for a weapon with no properties other than holy avenger is 15." ? --Pimpernell 21:23, July 21, 2011 (UTC)


 * Um, you are having issues with chronology here. MrZork started this section of the discussion, then I made the article refer to the holy avenger longsword (difference link). It's usually not a good idea to jump into a 8-month-old discussion with the assumption that the article still looks the same as it did when the discussion was started.
 * Also, I would guess that the reason you were unfamiliar with the standard item is not because you don't use a longsword, but because your D&D background is lacking. (It's not like everyone who uses a longsword is going to have used a holy avenger at some point. In fact, there is only one holy avenger item in all of the official campaigns, and it is in a secret room accessible only by paladins.) --The Krit 20:11, July 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * you're right and i was stupid not to think of that. also yes, i'm definitely not a D&D fanatic :) but i played nwn a long time and before that baldur's gate and icewind dale. i mentioned not liking longsword where i better should have said not liking paladin ;) thx for the heads up. --Pimpernell 23:36, July 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * I forgot to mention this earlier: It is a valid point that there was an assumption that the reader knew about the item, so the article has been updated with a brief description of the item. --The Krit 20:22, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

Usable on non-melee weapons?
When designing a module, is this for Melee Weapons only? --SteveMaurer 18:39, 8 May 2012


 * Without changing the 2DAs, this property is only available to be added to melee weapons in the Toolset. I don't know how it would function if it were added to a different type of item by changing itemprops.2da, etc. to allow it. - MrZork 19:20, May 8, 2012 (UTC)