Talk:Innate level

Innate level and magic item crafting
[This discussion has been moved from the Talk:Sunbeam page when the topic expanded during the deliberation over innate level displayed on the Sunbeam spell article page and the Scribe scroll feat costing table.]

I noticed that recently the innate level for this spell in the Scribe Scroll feat table was changed back to 8 (originally listed as 7, per the 2da). Since the  has been the single source to confirm the innate levels used by the game in forming the crafting tables, it should be changed back to 7 to agree with the 2da. In that case, this article should be changed to keep the innates consistent, perhaps with an additional note similar to other spell notes that illuminate the difference. Please note that the innates reported on the spell articles are apparently based on the in-game display (or item description via toolset examination, i.e. talk file) with differences between that value and the one used by the associated 2da highlighted in those cases. Fortunately, in most cases these values match. If the  is not the underlying determinant of what is being used by the game engine, it is important that this issue is resolved so that a "wholesale" re-check of all the crafting tables can be executed based on the actual source. --Iconclast 14:23, April 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * The innate level for the spell is 7 in both 2das, I will be updating so that both articles read 7. Also I think for the scribing feats that when the innate level disagrees with the crafting level that the des_crft_spells should be used highlighted in green or red.  For the standard spells the only differences to note is
 * all greater shadow conjuration use level 5 instead of the subspell innate level
 * all polymorph self uses level 4 instead of of the subspell innate level of 3
 * warcry uses a level of 3 instead of the innate level of 4.
 * WhiZard 15:39, April 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Flipped the polymorph self numbers above (change from 3 instead of 4 to 4 instead of 3)WhiZard 18:04, April 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * I want to confirm that I am understanding your strategy here, WhiZard. First, I am unsure what you mean by "crafting level". Is that the column in the   labeled as "Level"?  Also, which way would you expect the red-green highlight to work?  eg. if des_crft_spells.2da level is higher than the spells.2da level it would be green and if lower then red? Or the reverse? Note: I have both 2das filtered for the spells currently used in the v1.69 game so could easily itemize all the conflicts to assist in further editing of the crafting tables. edit: added comparison table with notes --Iconclast 13:48, April 12, 2010 (UTC)

Notes:


 * 1. This comparison is based solely on spells which can be cast to create magic items. All spells in the 2das having matching innate levels except for the 3 exceptions listed. All spells can be used to create items with one or more of the magic crafting feats except for the 7 exceptions listed. It is not clear (to me) which resource the counter-spelling casting function uses.
 * 2. It appears the innate levels for Aura of glory and Aura of vitality were accidentally reversed in the spells.2da file. The levels in the des_crft_spells.2da seem to be the valid values judging by the respective spell levels.
 * 3. Most likely, the value of 9 is correct and the 6 in error since it is specifically a Level 9 cleric spell.
 * 4. This spell cannot be used to create items in-game using any of the magic crafting feats.
 * 5. There are two level versions of this spell in both 2das and both match. Magic crafting uses only the level 3 version. --Iconclast 13:48, April 12, 2010 (UTC)


 * Also, I believe the reason for the different subspell listings was to illuminate the fact that depending on which subspell was used, there are different costs, but only for Shadow Conjuration. The Greater version seems to use the same cost regardless of which subspell is chosen so needs no such distinction. As far as my in-game testing of all the subspell-type spells only Shadow Conjuration exhibits the costing anomaly.  In any event, thanks for synching up the Sunbeam levels.;) --Iconclast 00:21, April 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Alter warcry to level 3 and do the following coloring: Color red for the 5 greater shadow conjuration (as it is higher than the subspell innate levels), green for the 3 warcry (as it is lower than the innate level), and a red 4 for polymorph (as it is higher than the subspell innate level). This bases the spells on the level used for cost, as opposed to the innate level (which would involve separating greater shadow conjuration into sub-spells as each of these subspells has a different innate level when cast, even though their crafting level is the same).  WhiZard 00:51, April 11, 2010 (UTC)