NWNWiki talk:Community portal

Feel free to add questions or comments about NWNWiki here. -- Austicke

Archive

Google Ads
I have added Google Ads to NWNWiki. They should be relatively unobtrusive on the left navigation bar. I can't imagine they will earn much, but any commissions will go to support the Bastions of War server. The ads are not displayed on Special, User, User talk, Image, Template, and edit/preview pages. They're also only on the MonoBook (default) skin. If you don't want to see the ads, you can change your preferences to another skin. Thanks. -- Austicke 06:15, 4 Sep 2005 (PDT)

NWNWiki Promotion

 * I have sent an announcement to NWVault, added a link to BioWare's web site, and posted a message to their forum. How else can we get the word out about NWNWiki? -- Austicke 10:34, 7 Sep 2005 (PDT)
 * How about making a announcement in the DM forums about adding their worlds to the Gameworld page? -- Pstarky 03:18, 8 Sep 2005 (PDT)
 * Good idea. Thanks, Pstarky. -- Austicke 06:18, 8 Sep 2005 (PDT)
 * Our announcement appeared on NWVault today. I also posted a message on the BioWare Server Admin forum. -- Austicke 12:57, 8 Sep 2005 (PDT)
 * We've been stickied! -- Austicke 09:33, 12 Sep 2005 (PDT)
 * I think we got the ultimate promotion today: BioWare Wednesday. -- Austicke 18:31, 28 Sep 2005 (PDT)

Article styles
For feats, spells, etc., I'd suggest we try to leave the "standard" NWN description unchanged and put any notes or corrections in a separate section called Notes or something of the sort. For example, see Deathless Mastery. -- Austicke 15:09, 7 Sep 2005 (PDT)

NWNWiki logo
Do we have any artists in our midsts? It'd be nice if we could have a custom NWNWiki logo that appears in the upper left hand corner of every page. -- Austicke 13:04, 8 Sep 2005 (PDT)

Ok I want to make a banner. I can come up with the design for the banner, but i need help to make the design into a Banner. Any information/help would be great. -- Pstarky 07:06, 5 Oct 2005 (PDT)

What do people think about this logo for the main page. To replace the NwN logo.



For the main logo on the Main Page.

The banner will go along the same look. -- Pstarky 15:17, 5 Oct 2005 (PDT)

Looks good to me! -- Austicke 15:54, 5 Oct 2005 (PDT)

Can I have some more freeback from others please. -- Pstarky 23:21, 5 Oct 2005 (PDT)


 * I think its a little large, but other than that seems fine (oh and needs to be anti-aliased) Enigmatic 23:27, 5 Oct 2005 (PDT)


 * Ok with a bit of playing around in Photoshop I have worked out the anti-aliasing. Here are the end product. The frist file is a PNG-24, and the second one is PNG - 8. The second one is smaller of course. I just basicaly upload the two to see if there was any difference.





Now that i have had a look at both together, Im happy with the second one. PNG - 8 File/Smaller file -- Pstarky 05:14, 6 Oct 2005 (PDT)

Almost everything looks better with anti-aliasing ;) --Defunc7 05:32, 6 Oct 2005 (PDT)

Do we want to have it looking like this.. wikipedie Main Page. -- Pstarky 14:16, 6 Oct 2005 (PDT)

I think I understand what you mean Alec, by having the two logos. (NWNWiki, and NWN) Just have them side by side? -- Pstarky 15:42, 6 Oct 2005 (PDT)
 * Oh, you have anti-aliased them already. Looks like I did some unnecessary work. Nevertheless, I think the first one looks much better. There really is no point conserving bandwidth or disk space, it is 2005, you know. :D --Miborovsky 20:00, 8 Oct 2005 (PDT)

Lexicon
(Discussion moved from Talk:Main Page.)


 * I think the Lexicon should be integrated somehow. -- Lucky Day Sep 9 2005


 * Yeah, a nwscript section would be good. (Actually, the entire Lexicon would work well as a wiki.) I'm not sure if we should duplicate their info or what. At the least, we should certainly link to them. -- Austicke 12:08, 9 Sep 2005 (PDT)


 * Just thinking the whole of their archive comes in chm and html format all we have to do is ask them if it can be intergrated thats all. -- 194.80.20.10


 * They have an XML export as well if that helps. Not sure of what process would be required to keep it all updated but I have done XML and have used MySQL in the passed so it isn't beyond the realms of possibility providing we use some very smart labelling. Worst case we can put in references to the Lexicon where it is appropriate (ie if you add a note to a scripting function like "SetAppearance" then externally link it to the lexicon) Enigmatic 23:28, 5 Oct 2005 (PDT)

ElricWiki
We have a fan: ElricWiki. -- Austicke 18:10, 14 Sep 2005 (PDT)

Should I be happy about this fan? -- Pstarky 18:55, 14 Sep 2005 (PDT)

I don't mind it really. Most of our info comes from public sources, so I don't see the harm if they want to copy. If they create any content of their own, hopefully they'll come and add it here too. -- Austicke 19:35, 14 Sep 2005 (PDT)

Yes, if they do that it would be great. If not, we will just be as happy to copy their content as they are happy with own content. All I got to say though. Is we are the stricty WIKI on BioWare Forums, why would they have two stricty WIKI's. (Sorry self-centered moment there.)-- Pstarky 23:09, 14 Sep 2005 (PDT)

Cry.... Almost feel like NWNWiki been a whole lot of wasted time. Elrick Wiki Recent Changes (im really a net newbie when it come to program based for the net, didnt know a program could do all that. : -- Pstarky 11:45, 16 Sep 2005 (PDT)

Someone found the information you added so valuable that they copied it and you think it was a waste of time? Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Don't sweat it. -- Austicke 11:53, 16 Sep 2005 (PDT)

LOL Sorry had a Mason moment there. :) -- Pstarky 11:56, 16 Sep 2005 (PDT)

They didn't seem to last long. -- Austicke 16:30, 6 Oct 2005 (PDT)

Dunno but you gotta LOVE their Error 404 page. ;) Klingon Mage 18:56, 6 Oct 2005 (PDT) (Dire Ferret is watching you!)

Disagreements
NWNWiki is a collaborative community project; and, like any project of its scope, we're bound to have disagreements. I think it's a healthy part of the process, but we need to manage disagreements properly and respect others' opinions. I don't bring this up because I think it's been a problem, but I'd rather state this before someone gets bent out of shape rather than after.

As a community project, the users of NWNWiki are the ultimate authority. If we can't come to consensus about an issue, we vote and majority rules. I host the NWNWiki web site, but I get one vote just like everyone else. If I'm outvoted on something, I'll respect the decision and I hope others will do the same.

Thanks. I just wanted to make that clear. -- Austicke 09:07, 12 Sep 2005 (PDT)

On a related note, if someone adds or changes something you disagree with, please discuss it on the Talk page rather than just changing it again. At other wikis, I've seen two people going back and forth with the same edit over and over and it isn't pretty. If you know it'll lead to a disagreement, open a discussion on the Talk page to decide. The same goes for major edits that you think might cause some controversy. Thanks! -- Austicke 09:29, 12 Sep 2005 (PDT)

Navigation Bar
I'd like to consider altering the Navigation Bar that is on the left side of every page (at least with the default Monobook skin). It currently includes: I think the "Current events" item can go; I don't see any need for that. Perhaps replace it with "Categories"? Thoughts? Any other suggested changes? -- Austicke 08:42, 27 Sep 2005 (PDT)
 * Main Page
 * Community portal
 * Current events
 * Recent changes
 * Random page
 * Help

That sound fine with me. Having the link to all Categories there would be easier I think. -- Pstarky 11:56, 27 Sep 2005 (PDT)

Would it be useful to have the nav bar feature the top-most categories/articles available? I would potentially suggest 1 link for the game itself (ie playing it), and another for the toolset. I see most of the people falling into these 2 categories and thus it would give them a way to immediately access that portion of the system. I keep finding myself having to navigate several pages before I get back to the Neverwinter Nights page Enigmatic 23:31, 5 Oct 2005 (PDT)

I changed the navigation bar. Now what do we put at NWNWiki:Categories? :) -- Austicke 16:23, 6 Oct 2005 (PDT)

I have noticed on NWNWiki special:categories the list is all over the place. (Im guess the order is by date created) When I looked on Wikipedia special:categories they have it all in Alphabetical order. I have had a quick look though Wikipedia and WikiMedia helps and this is all I could find on it alphabetical order. It just basically outline what it mean. Im guessing Alec your the only one that can edit these pages. Would you think it would look better Alphabetical? Plus would you want that to be the link for NWNWilki:Categories or have it different? (like a Category tree which I saw as a idea somewhere else) -- Pstarky 04:12, 9 Oct 2005 (PDT)

Yeah, special:categories is not very helpful. I'm not sure why it's not in alphabetic order, but that's why I created NWNWilki:Categories -- so we could make something more useful. Looking at Wikipedia, I think we want something like this: Wikipedia:Browse. -- Austicke 12:28, 9 Oct 2005 (PDT)

Ok I see what your mean. So, Races heading then a list of all the sub-category under the Races heading... Classes heading then a list of all the sub-categories under Classes heading.... etc etc -- Pstarky 12:42, 9 Oct 2005 (PDT)

Can NWNWiki include references to HCR?
The Hard Core Rule set is a set of code designed to be used for developing ones own modules. It focuses on bringing the NWN game closer to the original Pen and Paper rule books. Would entries of this matter be welcome here in NWNWiki? What are the boundaries for the material? Just if they are copyrighted or not? Thanks for looking.

Link to HCR: http://www.neises.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=40

--Brick Thrower

I very much welcome community content in NWNWiki. The Hard Core Rule set -- or any community created content -- certainly deserves it's own page (or entire category) on the wiki. Personally, I wouldn't mind if general articles (such as spells or feats) had a "Hard Core Rule set" section with info (or links to HCR pages), as long as it's made clear that it's an alternate system. What do others think? -- Austicke 10:20, 27 Sep 2005 (PDT)

Im all for new content! Be great to have this on here too. -- Pstarky 11:57, 27 Sep 2005 (PDT)

I received the following email today: To:  Subject: NWN Wiki And The HCR From: "Sunjammer" Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 21:39:11 +0100 Cc: "Sir Elric"

Hi Alec,

I am writing to you as one of the HCR Moderators and on behalf of the current HCR Developers (specifically Sir Elric).

It has come to our attention that some individuals within our community are publishing extracts from the HCR on your NW Wiki and another Wiki site. Unfortunately they are doing so against the express wishes of the current development team and we would greatly appreciate your assistance in resolving this matter.

When Archaegeo left the HCR Community he made a deal with Pete Neises that so long as the HCR existed it would have a home at neisses.com and, until recently, everyone has respected Archaegeo's wishes. Unfortunately the HCR is going through a difficult period as a result of the current Lead Developer being AWOL most of the time. In his absence the community has grown restless and it has fallen to a few of us to try and hold things together as best we can. Nevertheless there have been calls from a minority to move the HCR to SourceForge and/or a Wiki. We have discussed these requests openly with the community but ultimately decided that it was in the best interests of the HCR to continue building the boards into the resource for all things relating to the HCR.

We thought everyone had accepted this decision however it appears two individuals in particular were dissatisfied with the current state of affairs and have taken matters into their own hands. This puts the HCR team in a difficult position: on the one hand we love that they bursting with enthusiasm but on the other we are very concerned this is simply going to fragment the community and confuse both existing and potential members. We have asked that they use our Knowledge Base forum instead of the wikis and have repeatedly suggested that they joint the development team. Unfortunately the are unwilling to do either though they will not say why.

Returning to the matter in hand I know you take these issues very seriously so I hope you will help us resolve this issue. Obviously we want to support NW Wiki as it is evolving into an excellent resource but at the same time we want to try and maintain the "one-stop-shop" approach to the HCR that has worked up to now. To that end earlier today Sir Elric edited or added pages for the HCR and Hardcore Ruleset which gave a brief outline of what we stand for and links to our official home. Further we would be very grateful if you would remove any other pages relating to the HCR. We would also like to discuss how we might support each other going forward and how the HCR might contribute to the NW Wiki in the future.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Warmest regards, Sunjammer I guess I should expected an issue like this based on past discussions (including here and here). My response to the email was that NWNWiki is a community-run project, so I wanted to discuss it here. Sunjammer gave permission to post the email.

I see that Klingon Mage commented about this on his talk page and doesn't want to continue documenting HCR when the owners object. So, unless anyone has any objections, I guess we should delete the couple pages documenting the HCR scripts and just make one HCR page with general info and links to other pages on neisses.com. I'd still like to see some notes on other pages about HCR community content (like how standard game rules and such are altered), because I think it's relevant to the NWN user who uses this site. I hope that's acceptable to the HCR folks.

So, any comments or suggestions? -- Austicke 01:11, 16 Oct 2005 (PDT)

Seeing some notes about HCR content on changed rules and etc. is still a good idea. Having a external link with the note to the pages on neisses.com in-reference to the change for that rule etc, is a good idea. In the way of supporting each other going forward in the future... It would be great if something what set up so that as soon as a change/update on neisses.com was made, we find out about it and how we could contibute/add in to the WIKI. Plus having a guide-line to show people what neisses.com likes and dis-likes with edits to do with HCR on NWNWiki. -- Pstarky 06:03, 16 Oct 2005 (PDT)

SunJammer speaks the truth when he says, "...there have been calls from a minority to move the HCR to SourceForge and/or a Wiki. We have discussed these requests openly with the community but ultimately decided that it was in the best interests of the HCR to continue building the boards into the resource for all things relating to the HCR." It was I, Brick Thrower, who initiated that forum post and argued in favor of, for quite a while, always being polite and handling queries thoughtfully, as I have always done throughout my help on their boards. However, those who _can_ contribute to HCR are limited to an exclusive inner circle, despite the best efforts of those who even ATTEMPT to contribute. I discussed at length the benefits of moving the HCR source code to an open source solution on their forum in poll format and it was indeed voted down (and the thread closed to further discussion). The verdict was fair and I abide by that decision not to move the HCR code off. Therefore, I *agree* with getting rid of the HCR source code from the NWNWiki pages. I posted ONE of the HCR source code scripts here so that everyone can compare to the revised version that I was proposing. The use of this single HCR code script has done it's purpose by forcing the issue to a resolution. I tried very hard to work with the HCR crew, but it has become quite clear that HCR is NOT a community development project, despite their use of the word "community" and claiming that they welcome community contributions. You may go to the HCR forums to get answers regarding their code set (many times by me!), but I wouldn't bother contributing anything other than questions...visit their community contributions forum and you'll see exactly what kind of reception you will get. OUCH! http://www.neises.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=78 Austicke, however, is not only actively ASKING for content, but allows it to become the product. He is actively encouraging development here. It is not hard to see what decision one should take, when one guy is pushing you out the door of his house, while another is pulling you into his. 

Thus it is that we, that is, I and interested others on this board, will be initiating the NWNWiki Rule Set (NRS) in the upcoming months. I will be freely donating my module source code to kick off the NRS as public domain. The NRS will be a rule set for the people, owned by the people, and modified by the people. Interested Wiki contributors will morph the code into a monster that none of us today will have imagined. Hopefully some of the the HCR developers will contribute, for they are very good at what they do. The only NRS criteria here will basically be keep improving the Code, and to not be bogged down by the type of source code repository or the method of it's delivery (which is the lesson that we learned from our HCR experiences). We will follow up later on as we finish our initial work and make an announcement on NWVault to encourage other disenfranchised coders and documentors to join us here on NWNWiki. Unfortunately we will have to link back to the HCR site as we document differences between, and improvements upon, the HCR code set. As a caveat, I should also point out to you Austicke, that the HCR site does NOT permit links back from their site to NWNWiki. If you post any link there regarding NWNWiki, it is deleted. I must say that it is indeed nice to be on a site with mature moderators who allow linking back to the original source of an issue. 

I should also point out that none of the HCR pages in this NWNWiki implied or inferred that HCR code was kept here on NWNWiki or ever was intended to migrate here. There exist links back to the HCR source code owner on many of the HCR pages within this Wiki. 

Also, I am sorry that we have to despoil the NWNWiki pages with what seems to be a personal issue. I hope it stops at this and we can each work towards our own declared goals. I have no issues with the HCR code at all, only the methods used to CHANGE that code. Brick Thrower 21:02, 16 Oct 2005 (PDT) 

Hear hear. Ditto that from me. Let this be an end to the whole mess and lets get back to building NWNWiki!!! Klingon Mage 21:06, 16 Oct 2005 (PDT)

oh well, I hope nobody calls them elitist PnP snobs :p ouch --NWNudist 02:12, 17 Oct 2005 (PDT)

I don't think this fire needs anymore fuel, Defunc7. -- Austicke 07:08, 17 Oct 2005 (PDT)

Okay, I marked a bunch of pages for deletion that I don't think will be needed anymore. The Hardcore Ruleset article should do it. Please feel free to expand it. Thanks! -- Austicke 17:45, 18 Oct 2005 (PDT)