Talk: Caster level

Voluntarily lowering caster level

You can cast a spell at a lower caster level than normal, but the caster level you choose must be high enough for you to cast the spell in question, and all level-dependent features must be based on the same caster level.

Do not think NWN supports this feature unless you are level drained. - DaBear

Ok Im tring to get my head around that sentence. Does it mean that, if you have 15 Levels of Cleric and you cast Greater Mage Weapon. At mornal Caster Level (15) you get +5 to Weapon. If this sentence was a feature to NWN, does it mean you can choose to cast GMW at a lower Caster level and only get +3/+4 to Weapon? Same goes with IGMS, you can choose a lower caster level and cast less Missiles? -- Pstarky 05:57, 16 Nov 2005 (PST)

Essentially yes, you can do just that in PnP. A possisble use for this ability if you only wanted to make a threat instead of a deadly attack. There is no way in NWN to do such a thing and truthfuly the zots needed to do it would be waisted.
On Level drained I do know some spells effects seam to take this into account while others do not. Since most people get level draining removed as quickly as possible I do not think it is worth the time to figure out exactly what conditions apply. DaBear 06:35, 16 Nov 2005 (PST)

Ok, thanks for clearing that up. For the reason that the sentence could cause confusion, I will remove it. -- Pstarky 06:47, 16 Nov 2005 (PST)

Caster level in spell descriptions

Spells have Caster Level listed, but this can be misleading for some (Bull's Strength). It lists Caster Level for a Paladin as 2. But this is really Spell Level, is it not? Is Caster Level and Class Level the same? If so, it would take a Paladin Class Level 8 (min) to cast a Spell Level 2 Bull's Stength. Blacknight 09:43, 12 July 2006 (PDT)

That's a good point. The game uses the term 'caster level', but it's really the spell level. -- Alec Usticke 17:06, 12 July 2006 (PDT)

Perhaps this should be an exception to the policy of preserving in-game text? (Since this is more of a "label issue" than "data issue", if that makes sense.) I've just updated all the spell articles to use "Spell level" instead of "Caster level". Let's see how it looks. If it's a bad move, it's only a single edit to change them all back. --The Krit 00:15, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Adjustments to caster level

Current article text: "In the event that a class feature, domain granted power, or other special ability provides an adjustment to a character's caster level".
Which class features, domain granted powers, and/or other special abilities exist in NWN that provide an adjustment to a character's caster level? (Is this part of the article relevant to NWN?) --The Krit 19:22, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

• I don't think so. For a spell (user type 1 on spells.2da) the caster level, or more precisely GetCasterLevel(), is the casting class level- level drain damage applied to that class. For a spell-like ability and feat granted abilities (user type 2 and 3) the caster level is the current class level of the class under which the spell-like ability was first obtained. Even after the spell is cast, getting the caster level of the last spell caster or effect creator will get the current stats of the caster (if he was level drained or leveled up after casting a spell the caster level for the last cast spell would reflect this, if applicable). Level drain does not affect GetClassLevel() or GetHitDie(), and it doesn't seem to affect any of the dispel commands (EffectDispelMagicAll() and EffectDispelMagicBest()) on the target's end (the caster's end is just an argument input). WhiZard 00:27, September 14, 2009 (UTC)

• Wrong isolation. Level drain reduces GetCasterLevel() only if the spell is cast through the spell radial menu (or the quickslot thereof) or within the creatures' spell selection (not special ability selection) of usable spells (user type in spells.2da does not affect this). Abilities granted by feats from a class often make use of the class radial menu which is not affected by level drain. Level drain still does not affect GetClassLevel(), GetHitDie(), nor the level associated with the effect to be dispelled (this applies to the target of EffectDispelMagicAll() and EffectDispelMagicBest()). WhiZard 13:54, October 13, 2009 (UTC)

• Wrong how? Spells use the character's caster level only if they spell is cast as a spell. Those other abilities do not use the character's caster level, so there is no reason they should be affected by a reduction to the character's caster level. (Come to think of it, the caster levels for those other abilities are not covered by the current article. Maybe I'll get in one more edit today.) --The Krit 14:24, October 30, 2009 (UTC)

• OK, I expanded the article to cover things other than spells, but now I'm looking at the October 13 change again, and I'm getting more confused about what the objection is here. Among the things I had removed was the part about changes to caster level affecting dispel checks, and you're objecting to that removal because level drain does not affect dispel checks???
  That earlier edit was purely removal of non-NWN info, with no attempt to add missing info. What did I take out that should not have come out? --The Krit 14:46, October 30, 2009 (UTC)

• To clear things up. I had called my September 14th isolation "wrong" because it centered around user type one. The correct isolation is spell tab/spell radial/polymorph spell has caster level affected by level drain. All other does not, (caster level for feat is the class level of the class in which the feat was first taken.)

For dispels level drain affects the caster level of the dispeller, but the spell to be dispelled does not reflect the level drain of its caster when it was cast. Thus a level 20 cleric with 19 level drain affecting the cleric class would cast a spell with 1 caster level behind it, but would be unable to dispel his own spell because the dispel check would be 1 + d20 vs. a DC of 20(level) + 11. Thus a level 25 cleric, no matter the level drain would have all his (non AoE) spells undispellable by greater dispelling, even though they were cast with a lower caster level. WhiZard 20:22, October 30, 2009 (UTC)

• Ah, I see now. I got confused because of the timing. My bad. I'll withdraw some of my earlier comments. --The Krit 11:21, October 31, 2009 (UTC)

PM and caster level

"Note: A common misconception is that pale master levels add to caster level. They do not." - thats true but only for non-epic spells, when you cast eg. Epic Warding i think the caster level is counted as base class spell caster level+pm level, I suggest it because barbar/bard/PM should have 0caster level not? and his ward still 16rounds (or if it counts with bard, then 19) -- ShaDoOoW 77.92.213.119 31 December 2008

• What are the class levels of your barbarian/bard/pale master? --The Krit 00:07, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

• Ok so I did a little research. Caster level in question of epic spell is equal character level in class that took that epic spell. So

1. barb21/bard4/pm15 will have for Epic Warding caster level 15
2. bard21/15pm -> 15caster lvl, bard cant have epic spells
3. wiz30/PM10 -> 30, to take it as pm you need 15lvl
4. wiz25/PM15 -> if taken as wizard, caster level would be 25, if taken as pm, caster lvl would be 15

So i guess that article is totally right. -- ShaDoOoW 77.92.213.119 1 January 2009

Epic item properties

What of the epic spells granted via an item property? I can create an item for say, a pureclass fighter with the Epic Mage Armor property on it, and the spell fires off, granting the AC bonus.... but what is controlling the duration? In my tests, it seems that an item-granted EMA lasts an extremely long time compared to a multiclassed wizard/fighter of the same level casting the spell himself. 67.82.127.176 02:40, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

• According to the relevant data file, the item properties for hellball and epic warding should have caster level 30, while those for the other epic spells (including EMA) should have caster level 25. Someone might want to verify that in-game, though. --The Krit 15:49, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Caster level and DnD rules/custom content

In the vanilla NWN, the caster level equal to class level the spell/feat is cast, with the only exeption in spells from items which has caster level given. However per Dungeons and Dragons rules, its not always that and some custom nwn content as PRC or 3.5 ruleset changes that.

So, per pnp rules:

• Paladin and Ranger's caster level is 0 until lvl 4, then its half class level (both 3.0 and 3.5 rule)
• Pale Master prestige class adds its level to arcane spells' caster level (per 3.5 rules its lvl-1, per 3.0 rules its (level+1)/2)
• Numerous other classess adds their level or part to caster level
• Numerous feats adds bonus to caster level
• Many domains adds +1 bonus to caster level for spells falling to domain category (healing domain adds caster level for healing spells; both 3.0 and 3.5 rule)
• Few items increasing caster level
• Racial Spell-like abilities has its caster level equal to total character level, thats eg. drow's Darkness etc.
  • And the character can choose to lower his caster level, like if he want just threat the target he would choose to cast IGMS with caster level 10.

ShaDoOoW --77.92.213.119 03:51, September 12, 2009 (UTC)

• The focus of NWNWiki is on NWN, not D&D. Adding all D&D rules to the wiki would detract from the overall usefulness of the wiki, I think. In addition, the focus is on vanilla NWN, not what is possible through custom content. The game is just too versatile to document every possible way things can be customized. (For example, you could make caster level equal to the length of the caster's name, if you wanted to. Is that worth mentioning? If not, where do you draw the line if not at vanilla NWN?) Articles about things with specific custom content (e.g. gameworld articles) certainly can mention whatever custom content they have, but I think specific custom content should be kept out of the general articles. --The Krit 19:20, September 12, 2009 (UTC)
  • I don't tell you to add this informations to the article, I'm just clarifying why I stated and what i meant at trickery domain discussion. Thats all. ShaDoOoW--77.92.213.119 03:36, September 13, 2009 (UTC)

Some new informations to consider

1. Shouldn't be this page also in Game Rules category?
2. I think that level drain doesn't affect already cast spells, only exception could be damage shield spells, but Im not sure of it atm.
3. Mention of usefullness when comes to spell resistance check.
4. Bug in shifter class who cast spells (from outsider shape for example) with the caster level equal to first class taken.

• ShaDoOoW 18:26, December 4, 2010 (UTC)

But what exactly does Caster Level do?

This article indicates that Caster Level increases the "Power" of spells.  But never says what "Power" means.  Because of that,  the article has almost no actual content.  A general word like "Power" doesn't mean anything in dnd or in nwn. Mudeye (talk) 18:50, September 27, 2017 (UTC)

• No, the article indicates that caster level is a measure of the power of a casting of a spell. That is, "measure" not "increases" and "casting" not "spell". It was not further clarified because the impact varies from spell to spell. If you want to disregard the rest of the article as "no actual content", feel free. But please refrain from deleting parts that others should consider actual content (such as the special abilities section). --The Krit (talk) 20:35, September 27, 2017 (UTC) Addendum: I realize that the deletion was possibly accidental and unnoticed, in which case this should be taken as notification that it occurred and a request for greater care when editing. --The Krit (talk) 20:15, September 29, 2017 (UTC)

• I've revised the new addition. Adding a summary of the effects of caster level is good, thanks. However, in the interest of keeping the focus on caster level, I removed the mention of specific spells. I also removed the mention of the special rolls used by Bigby's spells, as those are special cases that I think should fall under (intentionally) not being a comprehensive list. I added a mention of dispelling, since that is a general spell mechanic that uses caster level, similar to spell resistance in that regard. --The Krit (talk) 21:21, September 27, 2017 (UTC)

Scrolls

What's the caster level when casting using a scroll? Is it different when using the Use magic device skill without any levels in a spellcaster class? This information should be on the Caster level page. Tim123467 (talk) 16:37, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

• This information is already on the caster level page: "For spells cast from items, the caster level is given in parentheses after the relevant item property." --The Krit (talk) 02:34, 22 May 2024 (UTC)