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{{archivebox|
== Other classes ==
 
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<center>[[/Archive 1|Archive 1]]</center>
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}}
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__TOC__
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== Pre-epic alternatives ==
   
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Recent edit:
"This feat seem to only work when added during levelup. But it does work fine in other class slots then ranger so a monk with level 5 and Favored enemy gets +2 damage against his favored enemy."
 
   
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The following clause was judgemental rather than factual "there is usually a lack of worthwhile alternatives at pre-[http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Epic_character epic] levels."
what does this mean? -- [[User:Directrealist|Directrealist]]
 
   
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Edited this to be more specific and factual, "at pre-[http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Epic_character epic] levels this is limited to curse song (harper only) and greater spell focus, (only if the character already has spell focus in a chosen school.)"  I hope I have managed to preserve the original intent of the note.
* It's referring to custom content, so I think it means that the bonuses will only work when the feat is added to a character during levelup. If you add it using Leto or on an item or some such, it won't work. That's how I'd interpret it. -- [[User:Austicke|Alec Usticke]] 09:30, 3 July 2006 (PDT)
 
   
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Added note specific to gnomes who are automatically eligible to use this feat to trade for greater focus illusion as early as 1st level.
== Stacking ==
 
   
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Any wizard or sorcerer who has spell focus can take a single level of ranger to gain greater focus, martial weapon, medium armor and shield proficiencies, dual weild, access to animal empathy skill.
Does this stack at all with the Harper Scout bonus damage? IE if one were to get the class combination of 1 Ranger/1 HS would they get +1 bonus damage or would it stack to +2? -- [[User:132.42.128.28|132.42.128.28]] January 2007
 
   
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Choosing greater spell focus this way represents a free metaspell feat for both sorcerers and wizards who can achieve their maximum number of bonus feats in their respective classes, even with the inclusion of one level of ranger. At the very least, this constitutes a "worthwhile alternative" to a single favoured enemy. [[User:Pigron|Unsubscribed from email feedback]] ([[User talk:Pigron|talk]]) 18:00, June 5, 2013 (UTC)
* It would be a +1 [[User:WhiZard|WhiZard]] 13:17, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 
   
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* The edit cited was not recent and was a negotiation from the discussion [[Category Talk:Ranger_feats|here]]. The gnome aspect of greater spell focus only applies to ranger FEs, as Harper Scout does not allow for such a substitution. There are many builds that take a single ranger for various purposes including qualifying for shadowdancer, and most HS character builds tend to take the bonus feats epic to chose something more worthwhile. Nevertheless a level 40 gnome pure ranger without any FEs is a wasted opportunity. The ranger spellbook does not find ample opportunity for a large number of greater spell focuses, so at some point a nearly pure ranger will find a lack a worthwhile alternatives to favored enemy. Once a build reaches ten ranger levels before epic levels it typically will start taking favored enemy if it hasn't already. While your observation of substitution for greater spell focus do well to apply to the level 1 and 5 feats of the ranger, later ranger feats hold to the reverse.
== Criticals ==
 
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: The biggest issue is in considering whether favored enemy is intrinsic to the ranger and Harper Scout class, or whether it is just a supplemental bonus feat. Game documentation sides to the former, while power builds that crave the multiclass benefits of a few levels will side to the latter. If favored enemy is thought of in terms of a ranger build, it is fully worthwhile to take at some point. If it is thought of as just an add on, then it hardly shapes the build as a whole as the feat is class dependent in its potency. [[User:WhiZard|WhiZard]] ([[User talk:WhiZard|talk]]) 21:19, June 5, 2013 (UTC)
   
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:* Yes, the latest copy is better. Just as factual and stays on topic more strictly.
Is the damage multiplied from critical hits? [[User:Harleyquin|Harleyquin]] 01:50, 15 March 2007 (PDT)
 
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:: Of course pure rangers haven't any need for greater spell focus, unless a ranger wanted an entangle (transmutation) or grease (conjuration) spell with a higher DC at 1st level. Would seem a trivial possibility for the power gamer building for level 40, but in a level restricted world, or if the player just wanted their ranger to have more magical affinity than hate it might be desirable.
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:: If there were an issue here, it might be what we would mean by a "worthwhile" feat. It would rely completely on player intention and preference. Best to keep such editorializing in talk, hence ''my'' recent edit.
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:: Not sure which game documentation you refer to. The Neverwinter Nights Online manual with such statements as, "Their (rangers') martial skill is nearly the equal of a fighter, but they lack the latters dedication to the craft of fighting," is a document better ignored than discussed. Rather than a blueprint for the game, it reads like a hastily prepared afterthought. Fortunately, this wiki succeeds in so many areas where the documentation fails. ~~Pigron (June 9th, 2013)
   
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::* Game documentation includes the in-game descriptions for ranger and Harper scout (which list "favored enemy" instead of "bonus feat" for the first level and every five levels) and the in-game feat description which states "the ranger may choose additional favored enemies every five levels." These descriptions of feat offerings are in synchronization with the description of when the bonus improves. If you look at the above discussions on this talk page you will see multiple requests for clarification by those who were expecting the two to coincide. [[User:WhiZard|WhiZard]] ([[User talk:WhiZard|talk]]) 21:47, June 10, 2013 (UTC)
* Yes. --[[User:The Krit|The Krit]] 06:26, 5 April 2007 (PDT)
 
   
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:::* What I see in the previous discussions is a single (not multiple) request for clarification (now archived at [[Talk:Favored_enemy/Archive_1#FE_from_epic_ranger_bonus_feats|FE from epic ranger bonus feats]]), which was made by someone who was wondering (not expecting) if the two coincided, and which was asking about a correspondence between the bonus and the number of favored enemies taken (not the number of times favored enemy could be chosen).
== Special abilities ==
 
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:::: I can understand people jumping to conclusions about this, but the indicators are not as strong as you make them out to be. --[[User:The Krit|The Krit]] ([[User talk:The Krit|talk]]) 13:31, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
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::::* The second is from the section "stacking" in which someone asked if taking favored enemy from two different classes added to the bonus. If you read the statement I had written it specifically keyed in to the number of favorite enemies versus the bonus, rather than the number of opportunities. Pigron was specifically asking about what "game documentation" meant in the statement I had made in the article. Note also that "may" (used by feat description, not in the paragraph I wrote) often means that the game forces the favorable route when obvious, for example one cannot opt to take no feat at all on the levels the game description allocates for favored enemy.[[User:WhiZard|WhiZard]] ([[User talk:WhiZard|talk]]) 18:55, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
   
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:::::* Stacking is a separate issue. In fact, that question managed to avoid mentioning taking favored enemy at all. That question asked if a Ranger 1 / HS 1 would get a +2 bonus against any favored enemies the character happened to have. No mention of having two favored enemies. No mention of having two opportunities to choose favored enemies. In fact, the question could have been written by someone who fully understood that the bonus depends solely on class level. --[[User:The Krit|The Krit]] ([[User talk:The Krit|talk]]) 22:16, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
Do Manticore Tail Spikes benefit from this? [[User:Bromium|Bromium]] 08:48, 11 July 2007 (PDT)
 
   
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* One quick thing to point out: The bulk of the above argument against saying there is "usually" a lack of worthwhile alternatives (looking at just the initial comment) consists of pointing out worthwhile alternatives in '''un'''usual cases. That fails to deliver a contradiction. (It was fully intentional that the statement did not cover all cases.) Just something to keep in mind in the future. ;) --[[User:The Krit|The Krit]] ([[User talk:The Krit|talk]]) 23:35, June 10, 2013 (UTC)
* No they do not. Again, the script for the spikes calculates damage on its own, regardless of other feats. [[User:GhostNWN|GhostNWN]] 09:41, 11 July 2007 (PDT)
 
   
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== Bonus linked to offerings? ==
:* Can you point me to that script? [[User:Bromium|Bromium]] 11:17, 11 July 2007 (PDT)
 
   
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<blockquote>"Game documentation implies that the number of times favored enemy is offered corresponds with the bonus;"</blockquote>
::* Don't have the toolset with me right now, but do a search in all scripts for "mant" and it should be the only one. [[User:GhostNWN|GhostNWN]] 22:15, 11 July 2007 (PDT)
 
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Which documentation / where is it? I know people have come to that conclusion, but at the moment I cannot think of how it could have been implied by game documentation. (Sure it's not a inference instead?) Also, was "offered" supposed to be "taken"? Hmm... even if true, it doesn't seem to add anything to the article. I think I'll try taking it out for now. --[[User:The Krit|The Krit]] ([[User talk:The Krit|talk]]) 00:08, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
   
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:Look two posts up where I cited the in game display for the ranger description the Harper scout description, and the feat description. The feat description uses the term "may choose" for which I used the synonym "is offered". [[User:WhiZard|WhiZard]] ([[User talk:WhiZard|talk]]) 01:13, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
::* In case you're still looking for it: ''x0_s1_MantSpike'' --[[User:The Krit|The Krit]] 23:37, 8 August 2007 (PDT)
 
   
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:* That is an inference, not an implication. One thing happens every fifth level. A different thing happens also every fifth level. There is an implication that they happen at the same time, but not that there is a correspondence between them. If one of them turns out to be on a different schedule, the implication does not suggest the other is also on the different schedule. An inference (conclusion/expectation drawn by the reader, not made by the writer) could cause one to conclude that there is a correspondence, but it is not something actually in the game documentation. --[[User:The Krit|The Krit]] ([[User talk:The Krit|talk]]) 13:14, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
== FE from epic ranger bonus feats ==
 
   
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== NPC favored enemy ==
If I get FE from "Epic ranger bonus feats", will it increase bonuses +1 or it just add new race without bonus (like Harper FE does). --[[Special:Contributions/89.102.123.179|89.102.123.179]] 28 March 2009
 
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Just so this has explicit documentation I tested both LevelUpHenchman() and the Toolset feat selection before adding the note about NPCs using hit dice rather than a class level. I think the game just assumes that if it is an NPC, then looking at the level progression doesn't make sense. [[User:WhiZard|WhiZard]] ([[User talk:WhiZard|talk]]) 01:13, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
   
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* Quite thorough of you. --[[User:The Krit|The Krit]] ([[User talk:The Krit|talk]]) 13:33, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
* Favored Enemy bonus is a natural +1, with a further +1 for every 5 ranger levels. The timing or way you take favored enemy is meaningless. A 35ranger/5HS will get a +8 in favored enemy regardless of how many favored enemy feats it took. A bard 35/HS 5 would only get a +1, though. [[User:WhiZard|WhiZard]] 13:17, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 
 
== Capped? ==
 
 
Do the skill bonuses applied from favored enemy count towards the +50 skill bonus cap? [[Special:Contributions/199.76.174.214|199.76.174.214]] 09:43, December 2, 2009 (UTC)
 
 
* No. --[[User:The Krit|The Krit]] 18:35, December 19, 2009 (UTC)
 
 
== Notes section correction: In PnP, favored enemy works on creatures immune to crits. ==
 
 
In the notes section, it says "''In the PnP version, any creature immune to critical hits is also immune to the damage bonus from this feat. However, NWN does not have this limitation.''"
 
 
This is incorrect. In PnP, favored enemy does work on creatures immune to critical hits. Otherwise there would be no point to take "favored enemy: undead" or "favored enemy: plant" since they'd always be immune to it.
 
 
I know it has very little bearing on NWN, but I wanted to point out that favored enemy is not a kind of critical hit for purposes of PnP either.
 

Revision as of 22:16, 6 July 2013

Pre-epic alternatives

Recent edit:

The following clause was judgemental rather than factual "there is usually a lack of worthwhile alternatives at pre-epic levels."

Edited this to be more specific and factual, "at pre-epic levels this is limited to curse song (harper only) and greater spell focus, (only if the character already has spell focus in a chosen school.)"  I hope I have managed to preserve the original intent of the note.

Added note specific to gnomes who are automatically eligible to use this feat to trade for greater focus illusion as early as 1st level.

Any wizard or sorcerer who has spell focus can take a single level of ranger to gain greater focus, martial weapon, medium armor and shield proficiencies, dual weild, access to animal empathy skill.

Choosing greater spell focus this way represents a free metaspell feat for both sorcerers and wizards who can achieve their maximum number of bonus feats in their respective classes, even with the inclusion of one level of ranger. At the very least, this constitutes a "worthwhile alternative" to a single favoured enemy. Unsubscribed from email feedback (talk) 18:00, June 5, 2013 (UTC)

  • The edit cited was not recent and was a negotiation from the discussion here. The gnome aspect of greater spell focus only applies to ranger FEs, as Harper Scout does not allow for such a substitution. There are many builds that take a single ranger for various purposes including qualifying for shadowdancer, and most HS character builds tend to take the bonus feats epic to chose something more worthwhile. Nevertheless a level 40 gnome pure ranger without any FEs is a wasted opportunity. The ranger spellbook does not find ample opportunity for a large number of greater spell focuses, so at some point a nearly pure ranger will find a lack a worthwhile alternatives to favored enemy. Once a build reaches ten ranger levels before epic levels it typically will start taking favored enemy if it hasn't already. While your observation of substitution for greater spell focus do well to apply to the level 1 and 5 feats of the ranger, later ranger feats hold to the reverse.
The biggest issue is in considering whether favored enemy is intrinsic to the ranger and Harper Scout class, or whether it is just a supplemental bonus feat. Game documentation sides to the former, while power builds that crave the multiclass benefits of a few levels will side to the latter. If favored enemy is thought of in terms of a ranger build, it is fully worthwhile to take at some point. If it is thought of as just an add on, then it hardly shapes the build as a whole as the feat is class dependent in its potency. WhiZard (talk) 21:19, June 5, 2013 (UTC)
  • Yes, the latest copy is better. Just as factual and stays on topic more strictly.
Of course pure rangers haven't any need for greater spell focus, unless a ranger wanted an entangle (transmutation) or grease (conjuration) spell with a higher DC at 1st level. Would seem a trivial possibility for the power gamer building for level 40, but in a level restricted world, or if the player just wanted their ranger to have more magical affinity than hate it might be desirable.
If there were an issue here, it might be what we would mean by a "worthwhile" feat. It would rely completely on player intention and preference. Best to keep such editorializing in talk, hence my recent edit.
Not sure which game documentation you refer to. The Neverwinter Nights Online manual with such statements as, "Their (rangers') martial skill is nearly the equal of a fighter, but they lack the latters dedication to the craft of fighting," is a document better ignored than discussed. Rather than a blueprint for the game, it reads like a hastily prepared afterthought. Fortunately, this wiki succeeds in so many areas where the documentation fails. ~~Pigron (June 9th, 2013)
  • Game documentation includes the in-game descriptions for ranger and Harper scout (which list "favored enemy" instead of "bonus feat" for the first level and every five levels) and the in-game feat description which states "the ranger may choose additional favored enemies every five levels." These descriptions of feat offerings are in synchronization with the description of when the bonus improves. If you look at the above discussions on this talk page you will see multiple requests for clarification by those who were expecting the two to coincide. WhiZard (talk) 21:47, June 10, 2013 (UTC)
  • What I see in the previous discussions is a single (not multiple) request for clarification (now archived at FE from epic ranger bonus feats), which was made by someone who was wondering (not expecting) if the two coincided, and which was asking about a correspondence between the bonus and the number of favored enemies taken (not the number of times favored enemy could be chosen).
I can understand people jumping to conclusions about this, but the indicators are not as strong as you make them out to be. --The Krit (talk) 13:31, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
  • The second is from the section "stacking" in which someone asked if taking favored enemy from two different classes added to the bonus. If you read the statement I had written it specifically keyed in to the number of favorite enemies versus the bonus, rather than the number of opportunities. Pigron was specifically asking about what "game documentation" meant in the statement I had made in the article. Note also that "may" (used by feat description, not in the paragraph I wrote) often means that the game forces the favorable route when obvious, for example one cannot opt to take no feat at all on the levels the game description allocates for favored enemy.WhiZard (talk) 18:55, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
  • Stacking is a separate issue. In fact, that question managed to avoid mentioning taking favored enemy at all. That question asked if a Ranger 1 / HS 1 would get a +2 bonus against any favored enemies the character happened to have. No mention of having two favored enemies. No mention of having two opportunities to choose favored enemies. In fact, the question could have been written by someone who fully understood that the bonus depends solely on class level. --The Krit (talk) 22:16, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
  • One quick thing to point out: The bulk of the above argument against saying there is "usually" a lack of worthwhile alternatives (looking at just the initial comment) consists of pointing out worthwhile alternatives in unusual cases. That fails to deliver a contradiction. (It was fully intentional that the statement did not cover all cases.) Just something to keep in mind in the future. ;) --The Krit (talk) 23:35, June 10, 2013 (UTC)

Bonus linked to offerings?

"Game documentation implies that the number of times favored enemy is offered corresponds with the bonus;"

Which documentation / where is it? I know people have come to that conclusion, but at the moment I cannot think of how it could have been implied by game documentation. (Sure it's not a inference instead?) Also, was "offered" supposed to be "taken"? Hmm... even if true, it doesn't seem to add anything to the article. I think I'll try taking it out for now. --The Krit (talk) 00:08, July 6, 2013 (UTC)

Look two posts up where I cited the in game display for the ranger description the Harper scout description, and the feat description. The feat description uses the term "may choose" for which I used the synonym "is offered". WhiZard (talk) 01:13, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
  • That is an inference, not an implication. One thing happens every fifth level. A different thing happens also every fifth level. There is an implication that they happen at the same time, but not that there is a correspondence between them. If one of them turns out to be on a different schedule, the implication does not suggest the other is also on the different schedule. An inference (conclusion/expectation drawn by the reader, not made by the writer) could cause one to conclude that there is a correspondence, but it is not something actually in the game documentation. --The Krit (talk) 13:14, July 6, 2013 (UTC)

NPC favored enemy

Just so this has explicit documentation I tested both LevelUpHenchman() and the Toolset feat selection before adding the note about NPCs using hit dice rather than a class level. I think the game just assumes that if it is an NPC, then looking at the level progression doesn't make sense. WhiZard (talk) 01:13, July 6, 2013 (UTC)

  • Quite thorough of you. --The Krit (talk) 13:33, July 6, 2013 (UTC)