Talk: Flat-foot

Force flat-footedness

Does anyone know if there is any way to script a zone so that everything inside it (NPCs and PCs) is considered flat-footed all the time except if certain feats or attributes (such as Freedom) are present? This is of interest for underwater areas. -- Resonance 18:19, 20 May 2006 (PDT)

Effects that cause flat-footedness

The current list of effects that cause flat-footedness includes being entagled, prone and sleeping. Don't some of the following effects also leave you flat-footed: being blinded, confused, dazed, feared, stunned, paralyzed (held), or petrified? If any of those do, I think it worth adding to this page. If not this page, then maybe somewhere else: I think people building sneak attack characters would be helped by a list of all the (on-hit or spell) effects that render characters flat-footed and therefore vulnerable to (repeat) sneaks. I asked about it on the "sneak attack" page and was recommended this page instead. Thoughts? -Zenobia 14:55, 31 July 2006 (PDT)

• Usually if you do something you aren't flat-footed

1. blinded: I don't know, I guess if you fight you aren't flat-footed
2. confused: if you fight someone... see above
3. dazed: you can't fight but you can walk away (not flat-footed) or drink a potion (not flat-footed)
4. feared: if you run away (move icon in top left corner) you aren't flat-footed, if you just stand there doing nothing you are flat-footed
5. stunned, paralyzed (held), or petrified: I guess you are flat-footed because you can't do anything.

 

So I think it's not the effect that makes you flat-footed. You're flat-footed because you can't do anything to prevent to become flat-footed.--Kamiryn 22:36, 31 July 2006 (PDT)

• Pick-pocket should be added with taunt as something that leaves you flat-footed. I'll test it but I believe most if not all of the shifter/druid forms' "special" (i.e. gazes, breaths, etc) attacks also leave you flat-footed. I think that using Bardic abilities also leaves you flat-footed. What it seems to boil down to is that if you are doing anything other than melee/ranged attacking in battle, you are flat-footed. The comments above about walking away & drinking a potion being "not-flatfooted" I believe are wrong. Same with the "run away ... you aren't flat-footed" comment. Kaldair 13:09, 24 January 2007 (PST)

Initiative and sneak attacks

Does a character's initiative really matter when making a sneak attack on a flat-footed character? I've never noticed initiative making any difference in sneak attacks. (Not that I notice everything, of course.) --The Krit 19:50, 22 August 2006 (PDT)

Time stop

Is a character flat-footed when frozen in time by the time stop spell? --124.185.224.45 February 1, 2007

• It's not possible to actually attack from Time Stop; you can only summon or set up buffs or such. --67.2.18.186 07:31, 8 January 2012

Flat-footed and casting

Can someone explain if you can ever be flat footed while casting a spell? Hobbes3 08:57, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

• I think casters are briefly flat-footed after casting a spell. I haven't done a good analysis of it, but when my rogues fight NPC spellcasters, there is an attack of opportunity caused by the casting, and the attack following that is a sneak attack. This was against NPC casters though, so as far as I know, it is possible that a PC caster might avoid being flat-footed by queuing up actions. --The Krit 13:18, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

• I think you're right because when my friend and I tested this, we also found the same thing, but we just weren't sure. Hobbes3 20:36, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

• After casting a spell with no offensive spell or action taken recently, a caster is even susceptible to death attack paralysis from a fully visible character. So yes it looks like flat-footed is at play during that short period of time after casting a spell. WhiZard 12:30, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
• Casting doesn't make you flat footed. When you cast a spell while not casting defensively you provoke an attack of oppurtunity(Random person edit). 13:36, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Combat radius

In this article it says you are flat-footed when "[you] move outside of the combat radius." Well how big is this combat radius? And I assume it's the radius of the attacker right? Hobbes3 20:38, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

WASD and moving

So I know as long as you are moving and in combat mode (you can't rest), you aren't flat-footed. Also they said if you have the moving icon (on the top left corner of your screen), then you won't be flat-footed. But if you use WASD to move around, you won't have the moving icon, so will you be flat-footed then? Hobbes3 20:40, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

• i think you are flat-footed while moving. you are not ready for combat any more (e.g.: you character rests his 2-hander on his shoulder while moving. [not a prove, just a hint]). the A ans D button however work different: they let you circle in sidesteps around your enemy while in combat. this will not make you flat-footed --Gruftlord February 2008

• Hibbes3 is right. Any moving action (normal move, move towards placeable/door, follow) doesnt put character into flat but moving via keyboard, WASD, doesnt make an action and therefeore character is flatfooted. The first note about flatfooted is therefore false and someone should fix this. --ShaDoOoW 11:34, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

Sneak attack performed by a hidden player breaks dodge AC

When i am in combat with a player(we both are hitting each other), and a Hidden Player Comes and Sneak Attack you then i have realized that i completly loose all the Dodge AC. It is not supposed to happen according to The Flat-Foot Thread. Is it? --201.223.160.137 25 April 2009

• If you are attacked by a hidden character you are treated as flat-footed by the game description. I don't know why it wasn't posted in the main article. Nor have I tested Blind Fight to see if it allows the retention of dodge in this instance. WhiZard 12:30, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

• Blind Fight will let you retain your dodge bonus versus hidden creatures, however it will not protect you from sneaks by hidden creatures (even if you are immune to flanking). WhiZard 13:48, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

New to the forum

heya , im new to this forum/blog thing. its a special place full of good info :) --212.235.107.13 January 21, 2010

Casting a spell

I dont know where but somwhere I read, that caster is flatfooted while casting an offensive spell. I never had much problem with it, guess because the ac lost is not so big for mages. However it seems to be true, because I can confirm that if the monster attacking at caster has sneak attack, the sneak attack floating text is seen.

It seems to be bugged though as it works only if that offensive is targetted on creature. If the offense spell can be cast at ground, monsters do not receive sneaks / caster is not flatfooted. This is especially usefull when dealing with masses, as the sneaks can be very devastating. In that case spamming horrid wilting on the ground proven to be great tactic. --ShaDoOoW September 11, 2010

• What was your action queue like when you were testing? A while ago I was tweaking an AI system, and I discovered that if I queued up an action after spellcasting, my PC no longer received sneak attacks against NPC casters. Your case has the roles of PC and NPC reversed, but the same game mechanics should be in play. (Although, admittedly, I do not recall whether the spells during my tests were offensive or defensive. The two conclusions are not incompatible.) --The Krit 21:45, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

• Mostly only horrid wilting spam, or sometimes with negative energy burst, when I target any of these spells on target I do get sneaks ShaDoOoW 22:42, September 11, 2010 (UTC)
• More specifically, I went fully buffed into area, lured all monsters there in the middle and then entered Improved Expertise and started to spam these two spells on my foot (after I realized the sneak issue). I queved always like 20 of them which needs some time to set up :D --ShaDoOoW 22:45, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

• I made test today. However I maybe choose wrong target, well anyway. I told my pixie to attack me, now she gets sneaks until I started to cast spells. No matter if the spell was offensive or defensive or if I had in action queve anything, as long as I targetted her (or casted on myself) she dont get sneaks. I wont do any conclusions yet as I maybe choosed the wrong target, just so you know... ShaDoOoW 10:06, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

• After some tests, I can say that casting any spell on target other than self allows other enemies to flank the caster. Therefore sneak him. Casting aoe spell like horrid wilting or negative energy burst AT location instead of enemy then is great way to save agains flanking. ShaDoOoW 18:48, October 9, 2010 (UTC)

• Did you confirm an actual flank (+2 AB), or did you just confirm that a sneak attack opportunity was created? (The two are not the same.) --The Krit 18:27, November 1, 2010 (UTC)

• When I wrote flanked, I meant really flanked with +2ab bonus for everyone else who is not targeted by actual spell cast on object not location. ShaDoOoW 19:17, November 1, 2010 (UTC)

• Good. So many people get the concepts muddled, it's tough to keep track of who would remember to check combat debugging. --The Krit 00:16, November 2, 2010 (UTC)

Flat-foot status vs. interval (APR)

" In other circumstances, a character is flat-footed when doing none of the following: attacking (melee or ranged), moving, or casting a spell, feat, or special ability."

In the above statement, does relative interval matter? To clarify, suppose there are 3 NPCs attacking a PC. In this case, the PC only has 1 APR while the NPCs all attack with 4 APR. So with this sample scenario, are there moments within the round that the counter-attacking PC will be "waiting" for the next flurry while the NPC attacks will be issuing attacks during this "waiting" period? If the APRs match between attackers and counter-attackers, I can understand the dynamic described in the quoted qualifying statement. Each flurry should coincide, in time, between factions. Similar nuances can be realized even for hasted casters with vs. non-hasted foes. It is unclear to me how/when the game clears an action queue to allow when a valid flat-foot condition can be registered. Or am I missing something obvious here? Any effort to help understand how the flat-foot condition relates (if at all) to differences in APR between combatants would be appreciated. TIA. --Iconclast (talk) 15:43, February 27, 2013 (UTC)

• It doesn't depend on the exact animation the character plays, tha character is "attacking" all the time when he has an attack action icon assigned. Where performing wait animation or attack doesnt matter. 77.92.213.119 18:24, February 27, 2013 (UTC)

• A character does not attack then simply wait before trying to attack again. Melee combat, for example, consists of a continuous series of feints, blocks, dodges, attacks, etc. The number of attacks per round indicates how often a character is able to make an effective attack that actually has a chance of success. More experienced characters can do this more often, while the less experienced more often fall back to the feint-block dance. Similarly for the other combat actions -- some details are abstracted away so the game can focus on those details that could affect an opponent. There is plenty of activity going on during combat. --The Krit (talk) 11:58, March 18, 2013 (UTC)

Dodge penalties

The article mentions how penalties to DEX/Dodge/Tumble are kept flat-footed. In a previous revision only DEX penalties were mentioned. My question is, are Dodge AC penalties (e.g. from Curse Song) also negated? In NWN2 this is the case (which as far as I can tell is forked from NWN 1.32 or earlier - and I haven't seen a mention in Patch on the matter). --GFallen (talk) 08:55, October 21, 2013 (UTC)

Flat-footed applies to character or vs. individual attackers?

Is a creature considered flat-footed based solely on its own condition(s), or is a check made against each attacker to see if the creature is considered flat-footed against that attacker? The way it's worded ("...is considered to be flat-footed."; "...a character is flat-footed when...") makes me think the former, but the discussion on visibility makes me think the latter - I mean, if a creature casting a spell is attacked by an unseen, unheard creature and a seen creature, it would be considered flat-footed to the former but not the latter, right?

86.0.178.86 11:52, December 31, 2013 (UTC)

• "Both" to the first question and "right" to the second. (I thought it was spelled out fairly well in the article already, which is why I did not respond earlier.) --The Krit (talk) 03:49, March 4, 2014 (UTC)
  • Thanks for responding. I don't see how it can be "both" to the first question and "right" to the second, though - either a creature is considered flat-footed independently of the condition of its attackers (and hence it is not possible to be simultaenously flat-footed to one attacker but not to another), or else whether a creature is considered flat-footed depends on the condition of its attackers (which squares with "right"). 86.0.178.86 17:38, March 4, 2014 (UTC)
• Flat-footed is a condition of a character determind by that character's conditions and has in terms of game mechanic nothing to do with the invisible attacker. Both conditions simply triggers the same effect. 77.92.213.119 01:50, March 5, 2014 (UTC)