Talk: On-hit

Knock on-hit

On-hit Knock DC14, Foundation light flail? Anyone? I don't favorably see that it has ny rightous effect. --75.171.240.118 8 February 2009

• That flail casts knock when it hits and does damage, which unlocks all non-plot locks in the area of effect with an unlock DC of 14 or less. If there are no such locks in the area of effect, then you will not see the on-hit effect, righteous or otherwise. --The Krit 15:56, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

• i thought so to, but this wikia says about on-hit knock that the normal knock spell fires ONLY after hitting a locked object and the DC is bypassed for the object you're hitting. it doesn't fire hitting npc or enemies or anything other than a locked object. i just checked it just for me to be sure and it's true. only hitting a locked object will fire the knock spell. otherwise it's just a normal weapon. the only thing i forgot to check was if it will fire also if you're not doing any damage at all but still hit the object. i'm tired now so i'll do that after sleep, if i don't see further comments on this. --Pimpernell 04:40, July 21, 2011 (UTC)

• Yes. See #Knock on-hit again (which took place 21 months after the discussion you are replying to). --The Krit 13:17, July 21, 2011 (UTC)

• yeah that was stupid of me :D sorry people! --Pimpernell 20:49, July 21, 2011 (UTC)

Why knock and not knockdown?

Wouldn't it make more sense to have the Knockdown and Disarm effects instead? It would be cool. -- TormentedOne 09:56, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

• Instead of what? --The Krit 23:44, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

• Instead of or in addition to Knock. I always thought that was an odd choice of effects. They are supposed to be combat related effects, ie Confusion, Vorpal, Wounding, etc. -TormentedOne 00:53, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

• I believe the "knock" on-hit item property runs the script for the knock spell, so you could add a side-effect (such as knockdown or disarm) if you wanted to. I would not say that adding these side-effects makes more sense (as they are not related to the knock spell), but it could be done. Just be aware of game balance if you are editing someone else's module — the module builder probably thought of an "on-hit knock" weapon as something to be used when bashing, so adding rather potent combat abilities to such a weapon is likely to upset the balance.

As for "supposed to be combat related", that is not something I was aware of. I thought on-hits could be anything that made the game more fun, but if some authority has dictated that on-hits are to be combat-related, then that's the expectation. --The Krit 20:57, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

• yes, on-hits can be anything The Krit ;) for some reason your comments often make me smile :D anyway, TormentedOne, i know this comes very late but maybe others find a use for it if you don't. to be honest i also found it weird to have a weapon with a low DC on-hit knock property [besides the +1 enhancement]. on the other hand, why would ANYone use a light flail for combat!? it's a martial weapon and there are a lot better options than a light flail. so even though on-hit knock can be utterly useless to you if you favor on-hit vorpal or extra damage added to a weapon or what not [extra damage on a weapon like fire or whatever can open a locked object just as good], in the nwn campaign, where that weapon can be made, it CAN be useful to have it as a backup weapon to open locks in a whole area at once. there's two iron woods to be found in chapter 1 so you can easily use one for the "foundation". another way is, like The Krit said, you can just open toolset and modify the whole campaign if you like. certainly a few weapons like the specials that can be made in chapter 1. just make sure the script at the forge has the altered tags of the weapon in question. or, if you can't script, just place the weapon somewhere for you to pick up :) you can do anything you want! isn't nwn just a great game? have fun ! --Pimpernell 04:15, July 21, 2011 (UTC)

Multiple on-hits

"When multiple on-hit properties of the same type exist, not all will fire. This is of particular importance for properties of the on-hit: cast spell type, as some popular spells (darkfire, flame weapon) add item properties of this type to weapons."

How does the game decide which effect is applied ? Is it random ? --70.83.196.66 April 2, 2010

• As far I know its "First apply, First used" --ILKAY 03:18, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

• Flame Weapon is an On Hit Cast Spell. From what I remember only one On Hit Cast Spell is used, and this overrides any standard On Hits. For the standard On Hits there is no restriction on how many are applied at once, however they often have a percentage associated as to the frequency of their occurrence. So if you had two On Hit poisons then there is a possibility that both would fire on the same blow. --WhiZard April 2, 2010

• As I recall from my tests, the decision of which "on-hit cast spell" property to use seems to be random. --The Krit 20:32, April 18, 2010 (UTC)

Knock on-hit again

I made a bit research and I can tell that, Knock on-hit property does not work. It does not trigger Knock spell as The Krit guessed, in my testing i tried to break door with lock DC 18 with on-hit Knock of DC 26. Nothing, also no metion of the Knock spell script in nwclient log file. So I believe, that Knock was never implemented. ShaDoOoW 17:14, November 14, 2010 (UTC)

• I just tried it and it seemed to work without problems. Keep in mind that a weapon must do physical damage (overcoming hardness) to the bashed object for the on-hit property to fire, in addition to having a DC as great or greater than that of the lock. So, for example, if one creates an otherwise normal dagger with on-hit knock and tests it on a chest with hardness of 5, the on-hit property will only fire if the character has a strength bonus or if a critical hit is scored so that at least 6 points of damage are done (before the hardness reduction). In those cases, my observation was that the spell fired and the object was unlocked. - MrZork 22:28, November 15, 2010 (UTC)

• My testing shows that the on-hit:knock property causes the regular knock spell to be cast provided:

1. The weapon hits a locked placeable or door.
2. The weapon damages that placeable/door (on-hit damage is probably excluded, but I did not specifically check that).
3. The unlock DC of that placeable/door is less than or equal to the DC listed for the on-hit:knock property.

The interesting thing is that the item property DC is only used to see if the spell fires. If you happen to find a chest with an unlock DC of 30 next to a door with an unlock DC of 10, you can bash the door with an on-hit:knock weapon DC-26 to unlock the chest. --The Krit 15:24, November 17, 2010 (UTC)

• Ok my bad, MrZork is correct. I knew that the weapon must do damage, but I didn't know that the damage must be physical. I tried it with hammer with lightning damage, but my character didn't overcame hardness, that was the issue.
  Anyway I can't imagine much situations where this could be useful. Since the door must not be plot, you can destroy them (easy with flame weapon or darkfire spell) and then you don't have to care about knock spell or carry weapon with onhit. Also in high magic enviroment this is completely useless and in most or maybe even all persistent worlds all doors are plot. ShaDoOoW 22:49, January 15, 2011 (UTC)

• And unfortunately with those conditions that The Krit found, it is practically impossible to alter the way the on-hit knock work and replace the effect with knockdown effect for example. As was proposed by The Krit some time ago higher in this talk :/ ShaDoOoW 22:52, January 15, 2011 (UTC)

On monster hit

There isn't a page that describes the differences between the "On Monster Hit" & "OnHit" item properties. In fact I can't find any information for "On Monster Hit" on this wiki. Jaysyn 19:59, January 3, 2011 (UTC)

• Yep, I believe that is one of the subjects we still need to cover. I think the difference is that "on monster hit" will only function for creature weapons. If that is the case, a simple mention in this article might be sufficient. Maybe add in a redirect from on monster hit to this page so that "on monster hit" can be listed in the item property category. --The Krit 21:17, January 3, 2011 (UTC)

• Nobody had additional info, so I went ahead with the mention and redirect. --The Krit 14:59, January 26, 2011 (UTC)

• It turns out there is also a difference in that the DCs for "on monster hit" saves are calculated rather than specified. So I have now given on monster hit a proper article of its own. Guess someone (me?) should go back and review the creature articles to see if any should have links to that article rather than this one. (Not really necessary for poison and disease, but the other effects should get sent to there, if there are any.) --The Krit 02:01, August 11, 2011 (UTC)

On armor

To reduce confusion, since the people most interested in this article are probably going to miss the distinction between "on-hit" and "on-hit: cast spell", I think the article should be reverted back to the version that covers the property on armor. (Plus, on-hit: cast spell refers to this article as the definition of "on-hit".) --The Krit 14:49, July 26, 2011 (UTC)

• No objections, so I went ahead with this as part of my latest update to this article. --The Krit 01:37, August 11, 2011 (UTC)

On-hit Spell-like effect ?

The article notes that some on-hit properties trigger spells. (Note: I do not refer to the on-hit: cast spell properies. I know that those run the corresponding spell script.) Are only the "dispel" line of on-hit properties casting PC spells? (Think the article and ealier talk page discussion makes clear that knock is a special case.)

Also, are even the dispel "spells" really the same as the PC spells of the same name? Or, are they separately scripted or perhaps built-in? For example, would the dispel function of a weapon with the property "On Hit: Dispel Magic DC=18" be identical to the dispel function of "On Hit Cast Spell: Dispel Magic Level 10" (because the dispel magic effective caster-level is capped at 10 in NW_S0_DisMagic). Or is it scripted separately from NW_S0_DisMagic, so that it ignores the cap? If the latter is the case, it would seem that, in terms of dispelling power, is "On Hit: Greater Dispeling DC=18" identical to "On Hit: Lesser Dispeling DC=18". Is that correct? - MrZork (talk) 09:49, July 12, 2016 (UTC)

The On-Hit is hard-coded, but is remarkably similar to the code for the spell. The on-hit, for example, will not dispel a petrified creature. The caster level is taken from the DC (with caps same as scripting). However, there is no spell ID, and damage is required for the spell to trigger (the signaling is correct, so the black blade could be dispelled if another creature was targeted within the dispel radius). Additionally the on dispels use the area of effect (targeting a location) while simply running the script as an on-hit:cast spell would only target a single creature. The main difference, though is the frequency and stacking. On-hit: cast spell fires every hit but only one of these properties works at a time. Normal on-hits tend to have lesser frequency, but stack with each other should multiple instance be selected for the same blow. WhiZard (talk) 16:01, July 12, 2016 (UTC)

Okay. So, the effective caster level caps for the three (non-Mords) on-hit: dispels are the same as for the PC spells. Aside from inflating the price of the item, there would be no value in ever setting the DC of on-hit: Lesser Dispelling or on-hit:Dispel Magic greater than 14 (the minimum) or setting the DC of on-hit: Greater Dispelling greater than 16. Got it. Thank you. - MrZork (talk) 05:31, July 13, 2016 (UTC)

I am doubting some of the conclusions I came to regarding on-hit dispelling earlier in this talk area. In fact, I am wondering if there might not be some sort of bug in On-Hit Dispel, at least in EE, where I did some testing.

I ran a test where I gave a couple of high-AB enemies short swords with On-Hit: Dispel Magic at DC 26. According to what I understood above, those blade should be ineffective at dispelling spells cast at level 19 or higher. So, I sent in my caster-level 25 wizard, buffed him a bit, and let the enemies attack. They hit plenty, did damage, and the dispel FX played. He never had any effect dispelled. So far, so good. Then, for kicks, I had him use a potion of Eagle's Spendor, which has CL 3. The attackers should have pretty rapidly dispelled it, with their hits. The dispel FX played many, many times, but my mage never lost his CHA buff. Any idea what's going on here? Is there some extra sublety to the On-Hit: Dispel Magic mechanics? Is On-Hit: Dispel Magic broken somehow?  - MrZork (talk) 06:45, March 16, 2019 (UTC)