Talk:Pale master

Clarifications

Arcane spell caster level 3 (minimum) is the same as a wizard/bard/sorcerer level 3, not that you are being able to use level 3 spells.

The duration of the spells are based on Arcane levels. I.e if I have 30 levels of pale master and 10 levels of wizard, all spells are treated as level 10 considering damage, duration and saves. (in version 1.66 at least)

You get one spell slot for 2 levels of palemaster. I.e if you have 8 levels of wizard and 3 levels of pale master, you will have the same amounts of spellslots as a level 10 wizard. If you take one level of pale master more (wiz 8/pm 4), then you will still have spell slots as a level 10 wizard, since this begin to count at level 1 pale master. I.e:
lvl 1 = spellslot
lvl 3 = spellslot
lvl 5 = spellslot, and so on.
--62.127.246.136 January 31, 2006

Feat list

 L1: Boneskin (AC Base+2)
 L1: Gain spells per day every 2 levels at the highest caster class rate
 L2: Cast Animate Dead (Tyrantfog Zombie, 1/day)
 L3: Darkvision
 L4: Cast Summon Undead (Ghoul, 2/day)
 L4: Boneskin (AC Base+2 every 4 levels)
 L5: Deathless Vigor (+3 HP per class level up to character level 20)
 L6: Undead Graft (Paralyze 2/day, 3/day at level 8, arm replaced by bone)
 L6: Cast Animate Dead (Skeleton Warrior, 1/day)
 L6: Cast Summon Undead (Shadow, 2/day)
 L7: Tough as Bone (Immune to Hold, Paralyze and Stun)
 L7: Cast Summon Undead (Ghast, 2/day)
 L8: Cast Summon Undead (Wight, 2/day)
 L9: Cast Summon Undead (Wraith, 2/day)
 L9: Cast Summon Greater Undead (Mummy, 1/day)
 L10: Deathless Mastery (Immune to Critical Hits)
 L10: Deathless Master Touch (DC17 Kill 3/day, DC+1 every 2 levels)
 L10: Cast Summon Greater Undead (Spectre, 1/day)
 L12: Cast Summon Greater Undead (Vampire Rogue, 1/day)
 L13: Epic Bonus Feat every 3 levels
 L13: Undead Graft (Paralyze 4/day, +1/day every 3 levels)
 L14: Cast Summon Greater Undead (Greater Bodak, 1/day)
 L15: Deathless Vigor (+5 HP every 5 levels)
 L16: Cast Summon Greater Undead (Ghoul King, 1/day)
 L18: Cast Summon Greater Undead (Vampire Mage, 1/day)
 L20: Cast Summon Greater Undead (Skeleton Blackguard, 1/day)
 L22: Cast Summon Greater Undead (Lich, 1/day)
 L24: Cast Summon Greater Undead (Lich Lord, 1/day)
 L26: Cast Summon Greater Undead (Alhoon, 1/day)
 L28: Cast Summon Greater Undead (Elder Alhoon, 1/day)
 L30: Cast Summon Greater Undead (Demi Lich, 1/day)

--62.127.246.136 January 31, 2006

Using PMs

Since you dont get the spells, only the spellslots, it's stupid to take a pale master in a world where few scrolls are available, or start a pale master before you have gotten all spells you want as a wizard/sorcerer.

Pale masters have a nice AC but terrible AB. In reality, they are the meatshield that stands in the front, taking the blows but dealing zip damage themselves.

Take only 10 levels of pale master if you are a munchkin and want a killer character. Everything above level 10 is worth less than the same levels as wizard (for spellduration and damage) or fighter (for Attack Bonus). Wizard is a much better choice than bard/sorcerer since you'll get a better selection of spells and the higher int. will give you more skillpoints. --62.127.246.136 January 31, 2006

• Not true, going 15 or even 16 palemaster can open up Epic Spells, bonus feats, more AC. A fighter meatshield with Warding and Epic Mage Armor? --148.177.1.219 February 2, 2006

• Current build I'm playing is: 13 bard / 17 Pale / 10 RDD. Dev crit, High AC, fair health, scrolls, tumble...best character I've ever played. Oh and yes, I have Epic mage armour and Warding and Hellball...The Ghoul king is RUBBISH though... --81.179.108.167 February 14, 2006

• Try taking 12 levels of monk - that will add more defense, SR, lots of attacks with significantly higher AB. Concentrate on summons/buffs instead of damage spells, and this character is quite versatile. --Blacknight June 15, 2006

DC vs. spell resistance & duration of epic spells

I am considering building a mage PM hybrid, though am concerned about losing spell effectiveness from taking PM levels. I understand the spell slot penalty, but need clarification on the caster level (used in determining what value of Spell Resistance the caster's spells will be able to overcome). Considering the previous statement:

"The duration of the spells are based on Arcane levels. I.e if I have 30 levels of pale master and 10 levels of wizard, all spells are treated as level 10 considering damage, duration and saves. (in version 1.66 at least)."

But caster level is not a factor in determining DC versus saving throws, so I think you mean the effectiveness of the spell to overcome the opponent's Spell Resistance. Is that correct?

Let me ask this in another way, HOTU manual states:

"Every 2 levels, the PM gains additional spells per day as if they had leveled in their previous spell caster class. This gain only applies to spells per day and not caster level"

So a 30 mage /10 PM would have spell slots equivalent to a level 35 mage (not considering ability modifier), but would his spells penetrate as well as a level 40 mage, or a level 30 mage?

Further, I am considering a different PM hybrid build, taking epic spells at PM levels (15 and 16). Wiki states:

"They can also take epic spells with Epic Bonus Feats (after level 15) provided they meet the Spellcraft requirements. The duration of the spells will be based on Pale Master levels..."

It seems that 'duration' should only apply to the epic spell chosen on the PM level. And that if you had chosen a different epic spell on a mage level, then the duration of that epic spell would be determined by mage level. Can anyone verify this? --125.214.61.187 April 28, 2006

• Spell Penetrate would be based on your caster level, as it is for damage + duration. So it would be 30 mage.

You got the understand of that correct. Epic Spell choosen on a PM level would be based on the PM levels. -- Pstarky 09:45, 28 April 2006 (PDT)

Tips on becoming

Tip on Becoming a Pale Master seems a little misleading. Pale Masters still gain spellcasting abilities, but not effectiveness/power. Also, they don't provide much of a melee presence, unless "meat shields" are considered a meele presence. They do gain a lot on defense; but without fighter or monk levels, they will struggle to hit anything tougher than an ogre. Blacknight 08:09, 24 July 2006 (PDT)

• Those are valid points. You should add them to the article. -- Alec Usticke 09:28, 24 July 2006 (PDT)

• It may also be worth adding that PMs can be added to fighter/bard and the like in Epic without an AB sacrifice. Also, PM summons are quite abysmal in PVP unless otherwise modified. 219.90.186.128 11:54, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Darkvision

I can see the visuals of the palemaster feat working fine. Is there a reason for the comment that darkvision only works as a racial feat? Or are you referring to the undisplayed +5 bonus to spot on stealth checks at night? Did you do your visual testing at night? WhiZard 23:56, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

Base class

What if I have Wizard 10/Sorcerer 10 build and take a level of palemaster? Which class will benefit from PM levels, and why?

Same question goes for Bard/Sorc and Bard/Wizard hybrids.

PM definitely only gives slots to one class, but which one? The game doesn't ask you which class you want to use. How does it pick a class? Does it use the first/last class taken, or class taken at first/last levelup, or goes some other way? --81.5.98.15 March 12, 2010

• Any word on this? I am curious about this myself 209.2.235.206 05:26, March 21, 2010 (UTC)