WhiZard, Welcome!

Hello, and welcome to NWNWiki. Thank you for your contributions.

For help, see Wikipedia Help:Contents and Introduction to Wikipedia, and please read NWNWiki:Manual of style.

If you'd like to practice editing, please use the Sandbox.

I hope you enjoy editing here! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk pages using three tildes, like this: ~~~. Four tildes (~~~~) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see Help:Contents, add a question to NWNWiki talk:Community Portal or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! --The Krit 02:38, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

ResRefs[edit source]

Did you know that ResRefs are unique to each blueprint? So if you were to edit a copy of a blueprint, the Toolset needs to generate a new ResRef for the copy because otherwise the copy would have the same ResRef as the original. In order to see the ResRef of a standard blueprint (one you cannot edit, but only edit a copy of), you need to place an instance of that blueprint in the Toolset, then look at that instance's properties. --The Krit 20:06, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

  • If you create a new creature with the same resref, then the resref is changed (from shfiend001 to shfiend002), however if you edit the Shadow Fiend in the main tab you can create one instance of the same resref in the custom tab. It is here that I could comparatively experiment adjusting race, scripts, and even using the toolkit function createobject(). Unlike most other creatures the shadow fiend's special attack is not under onuserdefined. WhiZard 20:28, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
  • Instances are not created in the custom tab — those are other blueprints. Instances are placed in the module. Try this. Go to the standard creature (not one in the custom tab). Place it in a module. Edit the properties of the placed creature, and look at its ResRef. --The Krit 21:39, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Do you want to try looking at the shadow fiend again? While you're at it, you could check out that creature's preset variables — as I recall, it is there that the shadow's custom AI is set. If not there, it's in the spawn script. In either case, it's not "probably located in nw_io_generic". ;) If you don't want to, I'm sure I'll get around to it eventually. --The Krit 20:06, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

  • I have disabled the different scripts and testing one by one have limited it down to the oncombatroundend script. I have also tested the appearance, tag, name, removed all creature items in the inventory, and have created multiple different variations and have deduced that the resref is behind the special attack ability. I am currently browsing the nw_io_generic but it may be even more hard-coded than that. WhiZard 20:16, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
  • Found it! Variable SPECIAL_COMBAT_AI_SCRIPT is set for script x2_ai_shadow which calls spell 769 "shadow attack" which calls script x2_s1_shadow where the strength and magical damage are dealt. Will be updating shortly. WhiZard 20:57, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
  • I thought you could do it. (That and I didn't have time to look up the variable name earlier.) I had forgotten the exact variable name, but knew it was something that could be recognized once you knew to look at the preset variables. --The Krit 21:39, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

i was wondering how to look at resrefs/blueprints that aren't in the palette. to be precise, i am looking for the Ghast(summon). i know there's info on this creature here, but i was thinking to modify it slightly without having to create from scratch. thx --Pimpernell 16:00, July 23, 2011 (UTC)

To modify would require overriding a file. You can use NWN explorer to look up. But you will need to be able to modify and save a .utc file to make changes. WhiZard 16:23, July 23, 2011 (UTC)

Anonymous edits[edit source]

I'm guessing the most recent changes to your user page were by you while you were not logged in, but could you confirm that? (I have a tendency to revert anonymous edits to user pages.) --The Krit 15:22, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Confirmed WhiZard 16:35, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
Thanks. I'm just being cautious by the way. Nothing inherently wrong with making anonymous edits to your user page. Since your IP address is now confirmed (and recorded in the page history where I can find it), I won't ask again unless your IP address changes. Well, I probably won't — I am forgetful at times. :) --The Krit 18:18, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Monster classes[edit source]

FYI: In case you're looking for the page you created, its title is now singular (as is the norm for articles here): monster class. --The Krit 00:45, September 8, 2009 (UTC)

Original descriptions[edit source]

You modified some effect articles saying "Original description displayed" (stunned, paralyze, blind, sleep, and prone if I didn't miss any). However, I don't recall those descriptions ever being displayed in the game, and a cursory search of the talk file did not find these descriptions. Were you preserving in-game text, or just preserving what someone else had earlier written for the wiki? The latter (which includes a number of articles written by Pstarky in 2005) is not necessary, and unnecessary strikeouts in articles make the wiki look bad. --The Krit 19:03, November 22, 2009 (UTC)

  • I was using the NWN platinum manual for original descriptions. For some these were already displayed before I began editing. These are not displayed in-game to my knowledge. WhiZard 01:44, November 29, 2009 (UTC)
  • Hmm... I don't recall a decision being made about preserving descriptions from the manuals. I think it's not a useful goal as the manual has so many errors and has not been (well, cannot be) updated like the in-game text. Given that the manual and in-game text disagree so often, I'd say that manual descriptions can be changed freely, but if people think preserving manual descriptions is helpful, we could start doing that. (Keep in mind that the reason for preserving the in-game text is to cut down on the well-intentioned "corrections" from people who think the game is more accurate than the wiki. I don't recall (m)any edits from people who think the manual is more accurate than the wiki.) --The Krit 04:58, December 2, 2009 (UTC)
  • I had sort of assumed that where the in-game did not speak the manual would be next referred to, but, as you have said, the manual is hardly seen as a corrective device by the vast majority of users. I only re-added the manual descriptions as a later afterthought, though I agree that even where the manual speaks beyond the in-game text, its incorrect descriptions would likely be more confusing than helpful. WhiZard 15:20, December 2, 2009 (UTC)

dispel dc[edit source]

whiz: noticed the changes you just made to the dispel dc on the dispel line of spells. curious as to why. thanks. s. Mysticjester 09:27, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

  • Lots of in-game testing and scripts. I set up a couple module scripts that would perform 50 dispels a round and in one had as many as twenty casters all under the influence of the same script. As to why this hasn't been unraveled before, the two commands DispelMagicAll() and DispelMagicBest() are hardcoded, so the only way to figure out what they actually do is by playtesting. WhiZard 13:58, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry[edit source]

I'm sorry if i came of as a know it all saying "it's the highest AB possible for a str melee build". Normaly i would say something like "i think it's the highest AB possible". But at the time i wrote it here, i honestly believed it was true and just wanted to encourage readers unexperienced with building. But it bit me right in the ass:) hahahah. Thats why i always say to fellow players who ask building advice "I'm a amateur builder"... It's so easy to overlook or forget things and miscalculate. Again, sorry. ---Pimpernell 17:51, February 19, 2010 (UTC)

  • Don't worry I'm am a very creative member of the epic character builder's guild. You should check us out sometime. We have a plethora of builds (both bad and good) extending to almost every aspect and useful combination of classes and abilities. WhiZard 19:35, February 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • Will do:) ---Pimpernell 20:30, February 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • Ah... been there before.:D It sorta slipped to the back of my head it was there, cause i usualy prefer to think of my own builds. But it's realy great you guys take the time to put builds there. That time i used it i needed some ideas on a dragon build. The Dragon Kin and the Dragon Savant helped me out :) thx.! ---Pimpernell 21:15, February 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • Actually that is a small sampling that was submitted a while ago with most (if not all) entries from one of our members. The actual guild site is here.
  • I took a look-see at your "negative light". Gonna check it all out later, right now a movie awaits me and then i want to play a server :) ---Pimpernell 22:25, February 19, 2010 (UTC)

Mistake made on Damage Reduction[edit source]

I accidentally posted a question on the article page of Damage reduction rather than the intended Talk page. Sry if I messed anything up in your diff by just going in and deleting it immediately. Figured I'd save you guys from having to remove it but apparently it just caused more confusion.--Iconclast 20:15, February 26, 2010 (UTC)

Hiya[edit source]

do you (assuming you played the game) use a druid/shifter acount as all your edits seem to be on those two classes and you editied my familair pages with some stuff on animal companions, you seem to know and awful lot about them?

Pokaloki 15:23, March 2, 2010 (UTC)

  • I know a lot about all the classes. Druid/Shifter was a recent emphasis for getting the shifted spells into the wikia. WhiZard 03:26, March 15, 2010 (UTC)

Administration[edit source]

So why aren't you an administrator? You've been here quite some time. Is it because you don't want or is it something else? MysteryStranger: Trust in the power of Infinity! 19:52, November 20, 2011 (UTC)

The thought has not occurred to me. There are plenty of admins already for this wiki, and given that I occasionally have long streaks of inactivity, I have never really thought I would be needed as such. You are the first to make such an inquiry.WhiZard 22:55, November 20, 2011 (UTC)
So, no then? Even though there are plenty of admins, only The Krit is active, others seem to have abandoned, unfortunately. MysteryStranger: Trust in the power of Infinity! 19:53, November 21, 2011 (UTC)

"Redirect" tutorial request[edit source]

Yo WhiZard! Thanks for applying those redirects for the wyvern article which is exactly what I would have done if I knew how. :P So... if you would be so kind to either furnish a link to the procedure/code here on the wiki -or- describe it here, that would add to my own repertoire and save you guys more clean-up effort. If, however, it is one those admin-only actions, then so be it. BTW, for whatever reason, for the 3 pages you redirected, all work except not the Great wyvern page. (It still just has the link to wyvern that I put there and doesn't redirect. ;( ) --Iconclast 17:34, May 15, 2012 (UTC)

To redirect put #REDIRECT [[Article name]] into the article. Great wyvern seems to redirect properly. If you click on the name of a redirect page after being redirected you will go to the actual redirect page (rather than the article) which displays as a bent arrow with a link following. When you are there you can look at the history and see the change I made as well. WhiZard 19:27, May 15, 2012 (UTC)
  • Working for me now as well. Must have been the infamous cached-version-not-clearing syndrome again. In any case, many thanks for the redirect help. I'll implement that method in the future in similar situations. --Iconclast 13:38, May 16, 2012 (UTC)

A word of thanks[edit source]

Kudos for sanitizing the AB ratings of all the dragon versions with epic levels, WhiZard. I've been trying to correct my look-up formula to reflect the odd epic numbers in a spreadsheet... the one I've been using to calculate AB for every creature... except the formula must right in the first place to do any good. Haven't gotten to the point where I can calculate AB in my head at glance yet, and may never get to that point. Kinda had me pulling out what little hair I have left at this point, so your expediency is a load off. Thanks for your repair time & effort! --Iconclast 02:15, May 30, 2012 (UTC)

  • Here is a sample code that I sometimes use to verify results. In a testing module I enable combat debugging and then I run the following script:

void main()
object oPC = OBJECT_SELF;
object oC = CreateObject(OBJECT_TYPE_CREATURE, "x3_dragmist001", GetLocation(OBJECT_SELF));
SendMessageToPC(OBJECT_SELF, "AC: " + IntToString(GetAC(oC) - GetCreatureSize(oC) + 3));
SendMessageToPC(OBJECT_SELF, "Fort: " + IntToString(GetFortitudeSavingThrow(oC)));
SendMessageToPC(OBJECT_SELF, "Ref: " + IntToString(GetReflexSavingThrow(oC)));
SendMessageToPC(OBJECT_SELF, "Will: " + IntToString(GetWillSavingThrow(oC)));
SendMessageToPC(OBJECT_SELF, "CR: " + FloatToString(GetChallengeRating(oC)));
AssignCommand(oC, ActionAttack(oPC));

To go over why certain parameters are necessary:
Armor class: the Toolset does not report tumble, or feat AC in its calculation
Saving throws: Epic creatures with more than one class can often have their saving throws misreported in the Toolset as its calculations are not sufficient to isolate which levels are considered pre-epic.
Challenge rating: The Toolset performs a CR calculation which may not correspond to the value the blueprint uses.
Attack: Isolates BAB, size, feats and several other factors.
WhiZard 06:43, May 30, 2012 (UTC)
  • This works great, but two questions: 1) Why does the AC calculation add 3 for all blueprints and 2) is there a way to make this script interactive for resref assignment through the console? I considered using the console to set a variable string to match the resref I want to test, but not sure where to set it (on module?) or how to retrieve it within the CreateObject command (I am not a scripter by any stretch of the imagination). Also, unsure whether running the same script multiple times by changing the variable string before each run-through will crash the game or create a stack overflow. Suggestions? --Iconclast 19:27, June 12, 2012 (UTC)
  • The addition of 3 is because GetCreatureSize() returns the 2da row numbers for creaturesize.2da. The values of that 2da are 3 minus the row number. So instead of continually citing the 2da, I manually put the size factor in. For testing more than one at a time you can adjust the script to the OnPlayerChat event and then type the resrefs. I, personally edit the script each time, because the module I test them in already has the OnPlayerChat event used for speed determinations. WhiZard 19:34, June 12, 2012 (UTC)
  • Wow! So you guys are play-testing each blueprint to determine the true values? I can understand then, why it has taken so long to post the full spectrum of palette creatures. I'll give your script a whirl to confirm those I've submitted. Ummm... you are using dm_runscript <script>, I assume. Do you exit debug mode right after executing the script or doesn't it matter (never ran script while debugging before)? Will the monster appear directly in front of the PC? If differences are found between the toolset values and what was extracted in debug mode are you making a note in each article to explain the source of the difference? (Lotsa questions... I know. :( ) --Iconclast 12:26, May 30, 2012 (UTC)
You don't need to exit debug mode if you aren't saving anything. Use dm_runscript, the monster will appear and immediately attack (instead of buffing) so you should already have combat debugging running. This procedure I generally only use for verifying information. I have had enough experience to calculate it out manually to know how the values were obtained. WhiZard 18:25, May 30, 2012 (UTC)
Related: Is there a default method the toolset/game uses to determine BAB of multiclass NPCs?
For example (though I haven't found any epic level ones in the default palette yet to use as an example), suppose I designed a 40 HD creature that used 2 classes; one was sorcerer, 20 levels and the other was fighter, 20 levels. The BAB (for a PC anyway) could be anywhere from 20 to 30 depending on how the classes would have been assigned (or "leveled", for the PC). I suppose one could even use all three "slots" for something like fighter 4/sorcerer 20/fighter 16... though I'm not sure if there would be any difference in-game assigning just sorcerer 20/fighter 20. Does the order which the classes appear in the toolset classes section affect the end result in-game? --Iconclast 12:26, May 30, 2012 (UTC)
The order I have found for class levels has always seemed to match the order of the Toolset listing, thus the top class takes its levels first, followed by the second class, followed by the third. So 20 sorcerer/20 fighter would have 20 sorcerer pre-epic, and 20 fighter/20 sorcerer would have 20 fighter pre-epic. I have not tested the results from LevelUpHenchman() to verify how multiclassing is treated there.
The main issue for ordering is that the Toolset's saving throws are based on a pre-HoTU system. In this system monsters were allowed three classes of up to 60HD each. The save progression for each class is stored in a 2da (each one having 2 + 1 per two levels increase for primary saves and 1 per 3 level increase for secondary saves all the way up to level 60). Thus before the HotU level 180 monsters were attainable and fully functioning. With HotU the epic save progression was added, this functioned like a fourth class' saving throws (up to 60 levels). This made monsters with over 80HD have no epic saves (as they would exceed the 60 epic levels, note also epic BAB for over 60 epic levels was also compromised). Since the hard-code will only allow the creatures to reference up to line 60 there is no custom content work-around (short of plug-ins, if NWNX ever acheives this).
A good example of misreporting is the drider chief. The level 21 chief has 6 aberration/15 sorcerer. Thus the 15th sorcerer level triggers the Toolset to add +1 to the sorcerer's secondary saves, while in-game 15 sorcerer is considered the first epic level and thus there is no increase to saving throw. The level 26 chief would continue to follow the sorcerer progression in the Toolset, but the epic progression increases the secondary saves faster so that the sorcerer's secondary saves are one less for this creature in the Toolset then they are in game. Dragons typically will not have this problem as all saves are primary and the primary progression matches the epic save progression.
WhiZard 18:03, May 30, 2012 (UTC)
  • One clarification: in the pre-HotU system, monsters were allowed three classes of 40 HD each. Before HotU, level 120 monsters were obtainable, not level 180. Patch 1.61 raised the limit to 60 HD per class (even when HotU was not installed), but that is a post-HotU patch. This is not a significant detail for the conclusions, but since the limit was mentioned, it might as well be the correct limit. --The Krit 18:59, June 25, 2012 (UTC)
  • A little something to add: the AC can be obtained by retaliating against the creature (when combat debugging is enabled). It does not necessarily need to be reported via scripting.
    And a question: have you found any creatures other than the BBoD whose blueprint CR does not match what the Toolset reports? I thought that was an isolated (and unexplained) case. --The Krit 18:59, June 25, 2012 (UTC)
  • Correct for AC; though the feat dodge, the possibility of flatfootedness, and other factors have caused me to prefer just having a script do the work.
For creatures with mismatched CRs I remember finding quite a few when I went through the undead creatures; the dracolich is the only one that comes to mind right now. In general, the CR in the articles seems to be matching how they are when spawned rather than how they appear in the Toolset. WhiZard 19:35, June 25, 2012 (UTC)
Here's an example of a CR mismatch which can impact XP received. The bandit blueprints (standard and 3 were forms) all display 2 for CR in the Toolset. They actually all use the CR of 1/2. WhiZard 20:03, June 25, 2012 (UTC)
Krit, found an odd one with the standard troglodyte. The creature was added 1.64, and you gave it a CR of 2 (presumably from what the Toolset indicated then). This creature spawns with a CR of 1, and my Toolset has a CR of 4. Do you know if the Toolset CR formula was changed since the 1.64? It would account for many of the mismatched CRs I am seeing.
  • A changed CR formula could explain the discrepancies, since I thought BioWare did all their blueprint creating within the Toolset. However, I am not aware of the formula changing. (Of course, if there was a change, there's no reason it had to be intentional. With so few people knowing what the calculation should be, who would notice if it changed? :) ) As for the troglodyte, I am seeing CR 2 in the Toolset (specifically, calculated as 2.12, rounded to 2). --The Krit 14:48, June 27, 2012 (UTC)
  • I found my discrepancy. An override of creaturespeed.2da was the culprit. I had adjusted the values of the default line when playtesting to see if this would cause a change in speed. It didn't cause any speed change, but it did have an impact on the Toolset CR. I should have discarded that override long ago. Now my override file has no 2das, and my reading for dracolich is down from the mid 70's to the 40's where it belongs.WhiZard 17:49, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

Custom channel - GUI[edit source]

Dunno if you have any idea, yet I ask. I wish to add new channel to voice volume (Originally there Talk, shout, whisper etc). I searched the whole .gui file from nwn explorer. Yet can't find anything, any idea where I should look? I believe those "shortcut" are just adding /talk, /shout, /whisper before your text. Anyway, I haven't found anything useful with google. Yes there SimTool, but I search a way that I don't have to type /build (as example) for talk to builder ILKAY (talk) 17:42, July 27, 2012 (UTC)

No idea on that, sorry. WhiZard (talk) 01:30, July 28, 2012 (UTC)
Community content is available under CC-BY-SA unless otherwise noted.